[OSList] self-organization

Marie Ann Östlund marieann.ostlund at gmail.com
Mon Jan 6 09:02:58 PST 2014


Hi Paul,

I do agree that Open Space is a form of organising - a beautiful and
eloquent one, as you say. If we bring 200 people in a room without any set
up, principles, law, facilitator etc, it most probably be quite a different
meeting than an Open Space meeting. So yes, a form of organising.

Interesting view on self-organising. I hear what you're saying, and I think
many esoterically inclined on the list would agree. I'm esoterically
inclined, but don't quite agree. But that's not the point. This discussion
helps me understand how some of you define and view self-organisation, and
why you talk about it in the way you do.

I'd be interested to know what you base your idea that human consciousness
has "clearly evolved". :)

Marie Ann


On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:30 AM, paul levy <paul at cats3000.net> wrote:

> HI Marie
>
> I'm suggesting quite the opposite. Truth doesn't always elude us because
> we are both tiny and universal.
>
> Open Space is a form of organisation. It is a minimally structured process
> that enables BOTH selves and the SELF to organise.
>
> Self-organisation is the act of the self, organising. The self is
> microcosmic, realised in the emergent, incarnated individual self, and
> macrocosmic in the holism (whole-ism) of the universe. Diversity lies in
> between, different levels and qualities of consciousness.
>
> As consciousness in our human selves has clearly been evolving, we've gone
> through various stages. Egoism has tended to both harden the self and lead
> to overstructure as those selves attempt to enclose and gain control over
> nature. Minimal structuring and organisation is an antidote to
> overstructure. Open Space Technology is such a minimal structure. And, oh
> yes, a structure it is. A beautiful, eloquent one.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 2 January 2014 23:37, Marie Ann Östlund <marieann.ostlund at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thank you Paul. I'm not sure how to respond or if I need to. :)
>>
>> Truth with always elude us since we're tiny. But that doesn't mean we
>> shouldn't try to understand. And as you say: "Perhaps it's us
>> self-organising so the self might know it" That's what I'm suggesting. Our
>> experiences might help us towards some more coherence.
>>
>> Marie Ann
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:09 PM, paul levy <paul at cats3000.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course, all of these wonderful statements about what
>>> self-organisation is, are organising statements !
>>>
>>> Open Space Technology itself, minimal as it is, is an organising process.
>>>
>>> I do enjoy lazy philosophy. It's part of our mysterious humanity. And
>>> making statements about self-organisation is like trying to bite your own
>>> teeth. You can't grasp this particular spiritual feather because you are
>>> the feather, the wind, the blowing and even the story of it.
>>>
>>> Though, perhaps the "self" in self-organisation really does refer to the
>>> human self.
>>>
>>> The eye is formed by the light, for the light. Perhaps it's us
>>> self-organising so the self might know it.
>>>
>>> Happy New Year
>>>
>>> Paul Levy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 30 December 2013, Daniel Mezick wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Such a rich topic! Thanks to Marie Ann Östlund for opening this topic.
>>>>
>>>> I am compelled to add the following words (verbatim) from RIGHTS OF
>>>> MAN, by Thomas Paine. The book is quite an interesting read for folks like
>>>> us. It tends to confirm and join with all of Harrison's key points.
>>>>
>>>> My favorite quote in the book:
>>>> "...society performs for itself almost everything that is ascribed to
>>>> government."
>>>>
>>>> When he says [society] in the text, he means groups to people who are
>>>> self-organizing, according to natural propensity.
>>>>
>>>> The whole book is here, for free:
>>>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007
>>>>
>>>> Quoting below, from this specific section:
>>>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001
>>>>
>>>> Will you pardon my forwardness? I've taken the liberty of bolding a few
>>>> words for emphasis:
>>>>
>>>> "So far is it from being true, as has been *pretended*, that the
>>>> abolition of any formal government is the dissolution of society, that it
>>>> acts by a contrary impulse, and brings the latter the closer together. All
>>>> that part of its organisation which it had committed to its government,
>>>> devolves again upon itself, and acts through its medium. When men, as well
>>>> from natural instinct as from reciprocal benefits, have habituated
>>>> themselves to social and civilised life, *there is always enough of
>>>> its principles in practice to carry them* through any changes they may
>>>> find necessary or convenient to make in their government. In short, *man
>>>> is so naturally a creature of society* that it is almost impossible to
>>>> put him out of it.
>>>>
>>>> * "Formal government makes but a small part of civilised life*; and
>>>> when even the best that human wisdom can devise is established, it is a
>>>> thing more in name and idea than in fact. It is to the great and
>>>> fundamental principles of society and civilisation—to the common usage
>>>> universally consented to, and mutually and reciprocally maintained—to the
>>>> unceasing circulation of interest, which, passing through its million
>>>> channels, invigorates the whole mass of civilised man—it is to these
>>>> things, infinitely more than to anything which even the best instituted
>>>> government can perform, that the safety and prosperity of the individual
>>>> and of the whole depends.
>>>>
>>>> * "The more perfect civilisation is, the less occasion has it for
>>>> government*, because the more does it regulate its own affairs, *and
>>>> govern itself*; but so contrary is the practice of old governments to
>>>> the reason of the case, that the expenses of them increase in the
>>>> proportion they ought to diminish. It is but few general laws that
>>>> civilised life requires, and those of such common usefulness, that whether
>>>> they are enforced by the forms of government or not, the effect will be
>>>> nearly the same.* If we consider what the principles are* that first
>>>> condense men into society, and what are the motives that regulate their
>>>> mutual intercourse afterwards, we shall find, by the time we arrive at what
>>>> is called government, that *nearly the whole of the business is
>>>> performed by the natural operation of the parts upon each other. *
>>>>
>>>> "Man, with respect to all those matters, is more a creature of
>>>> consistency than he is aware, or than governments would wish him to
>>>> believe. *All the great laws of society are laws of nature.* Those of
>>>> trade and commerce, whether with respect to the intercourse of individuals
>>>> or of nations, are laws of mutual and reciprocal interest. They are
>>>> followed and obeyed, because it is the interest of the parties so to do,
>>>> and *not on account of any formal laws their governments may impose or
>>>> interpose. *
>>>>
>>>> ***
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/30/13 11:10 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Marie – I think you have it just right. But maybe you are making
>>>> things a little too complicated, and working a bit too hard. In my simple
>>>> mind, things look like this. First: All systems are self organizing, even
>>>> those we think we organize. Second: Organizing a self organizing system is
>>>> not only an oxymoron, but stupid – especially when the system can do a
>>>> better job all by itself. Third: Whenever we try to organize a
>>>> self-organizing system, we inevitably get it wrong. Our efforts are
>>>> “clunky.” Even though it may look great on paper, our efforts are never
>>>> subtle or flexible (agile) enough. Fourth: Open Space is simply an
>>>> invitation to self organize. In other words it is simply an invitation to
>>>> be and do what we are. The fact that it works as it does has nothing to do
>>>> with our knowing any philosophy, principles, practices... It works as it
>>>> has for 13.7 billion years, long before we arrived on the scene, all
>>>> without our help and assistance. Fifth: the real value of OST is as a
>>>> training program enabling us to experience consciously and intentionally
>>>> what all too often passes by unnoticed – Life. It is also a marvelous
>>>> laboratory in which we can learn more about our natural state. And oh yes –
>>>> all the principles, philosophies, practices, etc are fun, interesting, and
>>>> useful to the extent that they help us to understand with greater clarity
>>>> what is really going on. But at the end of the day they really don’t change
>>>> a thing. I think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ho
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Harrison Owen
>>>>
>>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>>>
>>>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>>>
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>>>>
>>>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>>>
>>>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>>>>
>>>> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Mezick, President
>>>>
>>>> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>>>>
>>>> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>>>>
>>>> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>.
>>>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>>>>
>>>> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game
>>>> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
>>>> Agile Manager.
>>>>
>>>> Explore Agile Team Training<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/>and
>>>> Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>>>>
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>>>> Community.
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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