[OSList] Open Space and Boundaries

Tue Apr 8 14:58:25 PDT 2014

I remember a time (WAY back in time) talking to Harrison about what it
might look like to have a HUGE Open Space event in an open air stadium with
all of the participants wearing bright colored shirts . . . from the
perspective of a blimp hovering overhead with time-lapse photography
throughout the event.

I think this "container" notion would play out beautifully,

Self organization creates the space it needs - always - not more, not less

*Barry Owen*
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On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com> wrote:

>  Beautiful. Are the containers formed by the vectors of caring, or are
> the vectors of caring caused/nurtured/enabled by the container?
>
> I'm with Harrison on this one - the containers - including OST itself -
> were really formed by "the vectors of caring", i.e. Spirit. The best we can
> do as facilitators is invite people to what's already there.
>
> The "experts" in economics at venerable institutions used to teach, and
> unfortunately in too many places continue to teach, that inflation is
> caused by rising prices. When in fact the opposite is true. (Look it up in
> a dictionary.)
>
> I still find it fun to study the containers, and I hope folks won't be
> discouraged from continuing the dialog. But I'm extremely grateful for this
> reminder of the correct direction of causality here. It's really like
> looking at the world as round, when all the experts "know" it's flat.
>
> Thank you Harrison for helping us wake up to this!
>
>     Harold
>
> On 4/8/14 1:48 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>
>  David – I have known Glenda for some years, and have always found her to
> be bright, fun and contributory. She has some wonderful insights about self
> organization, and she works very hard. As a good academic, she certainly
> does her detail, sometimes a bit more than I feel I want or need, but good
> for all of that. However, when it comes to enhancing our function in a self
> organizing world (or Open Space), I suspect she is working a bit too hard.
> She and her fellows have developed a whole series of approaches and
> exercises which enable you to do what I find pretty much happens all by
> itself. But that is probably just me. And for those of you who want to know
> more about Glenda, I suggest her latest book --
>
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Adaptive-Action-Leveraging-Uncertainty-Organization-ebook/dp/B00C3WSKV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396971594&sr=1-1&keywords=glenda+eoyang
>
>
>
> And now back to containers and boundaries. The issue (our differences) may
> be purely semantic  – but maybe not. As I think back over lots of Open
> Spaces, and more particularly what I might call the natural appearance of
> Open Space (Tahrir Square, for example, or the coffee pot) I fully agree
> that from the outside they all look like bounded/contained experiences.
> There seems to be an inside and an outside, a container of some sort. But
> the question for me: – Is that boundary/container externally imposed, and
> therefore prior to the process of self organization as a precondition – or
> is the boundary/container a PRODUCT of the process of self organization?
> As I read Glenda, she would opt for the former: Container as precondition.
> I find myself coming down on the other side – The apparent container is
> actually a product of the process. In a word, what starts out unbounded and
> disassociated (random people and things) coalesces into a meaningful form,
> or better, organism/organization – which is what self organization is all
> about, I think.
>
>
>
> I grant you that in an Open Space the “room” would seem to be a
> pre-existing container, but I don’t see it as essential. In fact I’ve
> “done” a number of Open Space in the middle of an open field. And when you
> look at natural occurrences, I think it becomes quite clear that
> pre-existing boundaries/containers don’t really have much to do with what
> is happening. They may be convenient or inconvenient, but not
> determinative. The other things you mention (time slots, bulletin board,
> etc.) don’t fit for me either. Helpful to be sure, but you can get along
> quite well without any of it, or so I’ve found.
>
>
>
> So what is going on? My sense is that self organization with humans (in
> Open Space and/or everyday) commences when some sort of a vector of caring
> shows up which draws people together. Someone, somewhere, sometime says, or
> just thinks, “I care about... Not just a little bit, but I really care and
> am prepared to take responsibility for what I care about. ” If this
> care/concern is shared – and others care for the same thing, but maybe in
> very different ways... the ball starts rolling.
>
>
>
> In Open Space, this caring is made concrete and specific with the
> invitation. Of course, when the invite is sent out nobody has a clue
> whether anybody will come... but if they care, they will come, and given a
> date/place, electronic or physical they will all show up in one time/space.
> The vector of caring will draw them in...
>
>
>
> If the story I am telling roughly reflects the facts on the ground, I
> think there are some interesting and serious implications for the role of
> the facilitator and the function of the container. EVERYTHING is well on
> the way before there is a facilitator in sight or container at hand. In a
> word, the system, from the first moment of its emergence does it all by
> itself. We are bystanders, midwives at best. And the container (whatever
> that might be) is the product of the process ... and not the precondition
> or cause.
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
>
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>
> Camden, Maine 04843
>
>
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> (summer)  207-763-3261
>
>
>
> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>
> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> OSLIST Go to:
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>
>
>
> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [
> mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org<oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *David Osborne
> *Sent:* Monday, April 07, 2014 12:26 PM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space and Boundaries
>
>
>
> Harrison,
>
>
>
> I think this is one of the few times I have a different point of view that
> you. I believe OS's have natural containers built in. I also believe you
> need a container for open space to be effective. I think the difference
> stems from having a different definition or viewpoint on what a container
> is and can be. My view has been heavily influenced by Glenda Eoyang's
> theory and work in this area. For something new to emerge from self
> organization something has to hold our bind the diverse agents together for
> them to have exchanges across their differences.
>
>
>
> - The room or space the OS is being held in is a container.
>
> - A concept or idea that people care about brings the people
> together.....it binds or contains them creating the space to have the
> conversations to emerge.
>
> - The bulletin board is a container.....scheduling a specific conversation
> at a specific place and time.
>
>
>
> In my experience there are always multiple containers that are massively
> intertwined.
>
>
>
> My thoughts along the way.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Michael Wood <michael.wood at uwa.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Harrison, for your response to my question on 'boundaries',
> particularly your paraphrasing of my question - which was spot on.  One
> thing I've taken from this brief conversation is that although considering
> the boundaries can be useful, we also need to accept that boundaries are
> never entirely clear, always moving on a spectrum from clear to
> uncertain/murky and if we, as a sponsor or facilitator, get overly bound up
> with boundaries then we might have moved, once again, into being too
> controlling.
>
> Michael Wood
> Perth, Western Australia
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:01:40 -0400
> From: "Harrison Owen" < hhowen at verizon.net>
> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'"
>         < oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Open Space and boundaries
> Message-ID: <000301cf4f56$00776480$01662d80$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> It has been common for us to speak of Containers and Boundaries as somehow
> essential to Open Space. I can't quite find the place, but I do remember
> saying something like that myself, as in, "The role of the facilitator is
> to create the container..." It certainly made sense at the time, but I
> always felt a little uncomfortable with the image. Too mechanical,
> coercive... too something. And Michael has brought the subject up again.
> "So...here we have a situation where the 'boundaries' are actually in a
> state of complex flux and uncertainty. The financial 'givens' are
> ambiguous; there is no 'locum'
> pastor in place because of legal uncertainties with the existing
> pastor...etc." You might call it "messy boundaries" -- and he raises the
> question whether one should press ahead with Open Space, or wait until the
> "mess" is settled down. On the one hand, Michael "hunches" that one should
> press on -- Open Space. But his hesitation comes, I suspect, from the prior
> notion that fixed boundaries/containers are necessary for an effective Open
> Space. What to do?
>
> Some thoughts (new ones for me): Containers are great for cooking soup,
> but are unneeded and maybe even problematical in Open Space. It is all
> about holding things together. In Open Space groups of people come together
> to deal with their issues. At the very least that would mean gathering in
> some common time/space, be that physical or electronic. It would seem that
> this co-location could be facilitated were some suitable "container"
> provided, presumably by the sponsor/facilitator. This certainly makes
> sense, and as a rough way of speaking, it seems to describe what is going
> on. But as I think about it, I think we may be missing a most important
> point. Coming together in Open Space happens because people care to come.
> And they continue their connection as long as they care to do so. (Law of
> two feet)
>
> >From the "outside" it might look as if they were held in place by a
> container, but that is illusory. The actual dynamics are centripetal, the
> force is mutual attraction... people are "there" because they care to be
> there and not because they are contained by some external structure. In a
> word, we as facilitators really don't do a thing, and creating a container
> is the least of what we DON'T do. The people, from the beginning, do it
> all.
>
>
> Of course, there are situations where groups come together under orders,
> mandates, whatever. And they are definitely "contained." It is also true
> that the tighter that container, the less likely self organization will
> take place. If true, providing a container is not only unnecessary but also
> destructive. In the name of Opening space, we effectively close it. Or so I
> suspect it might be. Just thinking...
>
> Anyhow Michael, should my mental peregrinations lead anywhere useful, it
> would seem that your "hunch" was spot on. Forget the boundaries/container.
> Just invite the space to open.
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> Camden, Maine 04843
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
> (summer)  207-763-3261
>
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> OSLIST Go to:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> [mailto: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Wood
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 9:59 PM
> To: ' oslist at lists.openspacetech.org'
> Subject: [OSList] Open Space and boundaries
>
> A Case Study....
> One of the principles that I have generally worked with in Open Space is
> helping the client get clear on the 'boundaries' of the space that's being
> opened. For example, helping people who come into the space to know 'what
> up for grabs here and what isn't? What decisions have already been made?'
>
> So picture this (purely hypothetical of course)....a church community in
> which the pastor has (in many peoples' opinion) run off the rails and the
> main church body is in the process of trying to dismiss him; the church is
> in compete disarray and completely conflict ridden, many people have left;
> the pastor who holds all the keys, banking passwords; church telephone
> connections etc etc, has taken legal advice and had hunkered down in the
> church owned house where he continues to hold the reigns of power (via some
> of his 'allies' in the church) despite not formally being the Pastor of the
> church anymore....
>
> So...here we have a situation where the 'boundaries' are actually in a
> state of complex flux and uncertainty. The financial 'givens' are
> ambiguous; there is no 'locum' pastor in place because of legal
> uncertainties with the existing pastor...etc etc.
>
> So in terms of 'Opening Space', do we wait a bit longer until some of the
> legal boundaries are clarified, OR open space right away in the midst of
> the mess....my hunch is the latter, but any thoughts from anyone?
>
> Cheers
> Michael
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> --
>
> David Osborne
>
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> --
> Harold Shinsato
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> http://shinsato.com
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