[OSList] Open Space Economics? Be Prepared to be Surprised!
Michael M Pannwitz
mmpannwitz at gmail.com
Fri Oct 4 05:55:03 PDT 2013
Or, as Marvin and Sandra say in their wonderful book "Dont Just Do
Something, Stand there!":
"Whatever people do ... is the best they are capable of at this moment."
(page 68 in the chapter titled "Let people be responsible.")
ciao
mmp
On 04.10.2013 13:11, Bui Petersen wrote:
> Or perhaps it's better to say that we're not all equally good at
> utilizing our gifts.
>
> Bui
>
> On 03/10/2013 6:13 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>
>> Bui – I would disagree. We are all and most certainly equally gifted
>> when it come to Opening Space... if only because no special gifts are
>> required except a good head and a good heart. And I am sure you have
>> both. I think Michael P’s lengthy note says it all, so far as I am
>> concerned. Opening Space is a natural act, indeed space opens of its
>> own accord unless it has been firmly closed by someone who thinks they
>> are in charge. Even that doesn’t really change the situation, they
>> just think it does, but their efforts do make our efforts more
>> difficult. At such times, I find the Law of Two feet particularly
>> useful, and my two questions (conditions) – self selection and all
>> issues on the table – make it clear for me when I should take a hike.
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>
>> USA
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>>
>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> (summer) 207-763-3261
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com <www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>>
>> www.ho-image.com <www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> OSLIST Go
>> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>
>> *From:*oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Bui
>> Petersen
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 03, 2013 1:59 PM
>> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space Economics? Be Prepared to be Surprised!
>>
>> Thanks Harrison,
>>
>> I think that perhaps we are not equally gifted as OS facilitators.
>> That said, for us more "mortal" facilitators, not noticing some
>> dynamic does not necessarily mean that it isn't there. I think it for
>> most of us, it is important to know it is (or can be) there, whether
>> we call it power or something else. If I end up doing research on
>> group processes, OST will likely be just be one of several to be compared.
>>
>> Yes, there is an interested common belief that the world can be
>> managed. Much of the literature in my field (Organizational Behaviour)
>> is about "managing" people and finding the best way to control them
>> (I'm generalizing and simplifying here). I find it fascinating that in
>> this capitalist world, where the world supposedly is benefiting from
>> an "efficient market", management is still dominated by a belief based
>> on Taylorist and Fordist views of organization and production,
>> something that Stalin was an early adopter of. Why is it that when we
>> don't want to overly control society that we still want to overly
>> control organizations?
>>
>> I said a few years because it will take me a while before I get past
>> mandatory course work and comprehensive exams. :)
>>
>> Bui
>>
>> On 02/10/2013 3:57 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>
>> Bui – I surely hope that we will be seeing you sooner than a few
>> years from now! And I have to say that nothing in my experience of
>> multiple Open Spaces, including many with lots of CEOs, matches
>> what you seem to be saying. To begin with I have never seen an
>> Open Space that didn’t work at all three levels of “work” that I
>> would consider relevant. A) It works at a formal level – Folks sit
>> in a circle, create bulletin board, open a market place and go to
>> work. B) It works at a practical level – they actually get
>> something done which they deem to be significant. C) It works at a
>> continuing level – which for me means that at the minimum, even if
>> they never do an Open Space again, and even if they immediately
>> revert to their hierarchical, bureaucratic ways they always know
>> that it could be better and different. I have had CEOs (and other
>> execs) ask me if they should participate, fearing that their
>> presence might be intimidating – To which my standard response is
>> that they should do whatever they feel comfortable doing, but not
>> to worry. I sometimes add that, presuming they have some value to
>> add, their participation would be a plus. That usually causes a
>> smile, and almost inevitably, active participation.
>>
>> I confess I have heard tales of CEO’s who became so threatened
>> that they stood in the middle and essentially told everybody what
>> to do. In a word, they just shut off the lights. Perhaps my
>> prejudices have gotten the better of me, but that doesn’t sound
>> like a failure of Open Space, but rather a case of exceptionally
>> bad manners and probably a severe personality disorder.
>>
>> Perhaps one of the reasons I have never encountered a situation
>> such as you describe is that I always insist on a conversation
>> with the Senior Folks as a condition of contract. My friend Lisa
>> might call this “pre-work,” but to me it has always been a
>> relatively short simple conversation in which we go over a few
>> essentials. First, the gathering will be voluntary (voluntary self
>> selection). Second, all issues of concern to anybody in the
>> gathering will be on the table should they chose to put them
>> there. If I detect any problem, that would be pretty much the end
>> of the conversation, and my participation in their endeavor. Truth
>> to tell in all my years I can only remember a single occasion
>> where we ran into a deal breaker. And for whatever it is worth,
>> that organization and those execs are now out of business. I
>> wonder why?
>>
>> The whole question of Executive control is a fascinating one, and
>> should you pursue all this in your studies, you will have a rich
>> field. >From where I sit, the notion that any executive could
>> exercise the sorts of control that many think they have, or
>> perhaps hope they do (after all somebody must be in charge!) is
>> flawed to say the least. They don’t have it, never did, and never
>> will. The reason is simple. Any organization, large or small, is
>> so enmeshed with an environment which is so fast moving,
>> interconnected, random and chaotic that we can’t even think at
>> that level. And what we can’t think, we surely can’t control.
>> Mission Impossible. Yes I know that there is this hope and
>> expectation, fostered by the multiple business schools of the
>> world that change can be managed, that the future can be
>> predicted, indeed created, that the Plan will triumph. Lots of luck.
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>
>> USA
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>>
>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> (summer) 207-763-3261
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com <www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>>
>> www.ho-image.com <www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
>> of OSLIST Go
>> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>
>> *From:*oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Bui
>> Petersen
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:23 AM
>> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space Economics? Be Prepared to be
>> Surprised!
>>
>> Maybe "circumventing" is the wrong word. But for me the issue of
>> power is central. In order for OST to work, the "CEO" has to
>> temporarily give up some of her/his power (both procedural and
>> positional).
>>
>> I'm quite serious about this, and OST (and other group processes)
>> may become part of my academic research (I just started on an PhD
>> in Management). Maybe my contribution will be to help make the
>> field of Management become more open to self-organization. :)
>>
>> Maybe you'll all hear back from me in a few years. :)
>>
>> Bui
>>
>> On 02/10/2013 1:04 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>> I can't ever remember "attempting to circumvent power
>> dynamics," Bui. While it's quite common when people talk
>> about sitting in a circle they say things like, "...the circle
>> makes everyone equal." I always disagree. The circle gives
>> everyone equal access to all the others in the circle, the
>> markers and paper and microphone at the center, and the
>> bulletin board gives everyone the same access to all of the
>> info that is generated. It doesn't make them equal, the ceo
>> has an entirely different set of skills, resources,
>> experiences, concerns than the new intern. But as a
>> facilitator, I give everyone the same job: learn and
>> contribute as much as you can, from wherever you are, with
>> whatever you have at your disposal. serve the common purpose.
>>
>> none of this attempts or requires any circumventing. i think
>> ost works in spite of whatever the power structure might be,
>> once people show up. maybe the invitation tweaks the power
>> structure -- but if the invite comes from the top, then it's
>> the top giving power away -- hardly a circumvention, and
>> certainly not the facilitator attempting. if the invite
>> bubbles up from somewhere below, then it's the lower ranks
>> claiming power for themselves. so i think any shifting of
>> power arises because invitation exists as an option, not
>> because anything we do in the process of 'opening space.' i
>> think ost is just one way of pointing out that invitation is
>> possible and the ost story is pretty much the same in all
>> kinds of different "power" distributions.
>>
>> or maybe i just don't understand. what do you do to notice
>> and recognize power imbalances? and how have you seen this
>> improve the ost experience for people?
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>
>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Bui Petersen
>> <bui.petersen at gmail.com <mailto:bui.petersen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Michael, I guess we'll have to disagree. I see OST's temporal
>> attempt at circumventing power dynamics (e.g through the the
>> empowered of the the law of two feet) as one of the beauties
>> of the process.
>>
>> One of the reasons that the liberal view of market economics
>> is problematic is that it doesn't account for power
>> imbalances. While you can't take away all structural power, I
>> think the OST experience can be enhanced by at least some
>> awareness and recognition of such powers.
>>
>> Bui
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30/09/2013 10:56 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>> i don't think ost is trying to "take away structural
>> power," bui -- not even temporarily. i think it's more
>> about acknowledging the distribution of knowledge and
>> choice (power) that already exists. the law of two feet
>> isn't something special we enact at the start of an event,
>> it's something we just notice and point out, for instance.
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>> 312-280-7838 <tel:312-280-7838> (mobile)
>>
>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Bui Petersen
>> <bui.petersen at gmail.com <mailto:bui.petersen at gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting discussion. When I have described OST, some
>> people have been skeptical as it to them has has sounded
>> to "neo-liberal" and not taking power balances enough into
>> consideration. Obviously what the "structure" of OST is
>> trying to do is to take away structural power temporarily.
>> But some people are still skeptical about OST's potential
>> to do this. My own take is that OST does not always fully
>> succeed in this regard.
>>
>> Still it is very interesting theoretically. Both there is
>> a lot of other (than economics) theoretical perspectives
>> that better deal with power.
>>
>> Bui
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26/09/2013 5:33 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>> I share your concerns, Jeff, but found this piece to
>> be mostly not about politics. And where he comments
>> on current views and policy, I was less bothered by
>> what he was saying than by my tendency to agree in
>> many cases. But mostly this is interesting and useful
>> totally separate from his politics, I think.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 26, 2013, Jeff Aitken wrote:
>>
>> thanks Michael!
>>
>> It's unfortunate that I have a lingering dislike
>> for Mr. Gilder, who was famous for awhile around 1981
>> when the Reagan administration rolled out its economic
>> agenda, and his work was considered one of its
>> intellectual pillars.
>>
>> Twas a long time ago, and no doubt the man remains a
>> hard thinker and clear writer, perhaps with more heart
>> than I experienced back then.
>>
>> With that caveat, I'll dig into this when I have a
>> chance. Thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> San Francisco
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Michael Herman
>> <michael at michaelherman.com
>> <mailto:michael at michaelherman.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Here's a long one, friends… But maybe an important one.
>>
>> What follows is an excerpt from a markets newsletter
>> I've read for maybe 10 years by a financial expert and
>> best-selling author Named John Mauldin. He describes
>> and then shares an article by a guy named George
>> Gilder, Who seems to have been writing "important"
>> books for at least a few decades.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Herman
>> MichaelHerman.com
>> (312) 280-7838 <tel:%28312%29%20280-7838>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Michael M Pannwitz
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