[OSList] An offering! (Nasty Banks!)

Wed Jan 30 14:17:33 PST 2013

"One thing is that banks are necessary for the development of the economy..."

Banks are not necessary to create money for the economy.

That is one myth we need to get over, pronto!

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Jorge Amigo <jorge at amigoconsultores.cl> wrote:
> Dear community.
> It's interesting how the video has generated many comments and open a debate
> on banks.
> We can not forget that the video is publicity, good publicity, very well
> done. Fulfills its purpose of seducing. Makes you want to go to the bank to
> ask for a loan (a joke). Nothing here is improvised. No open space. this is
> the truth.
> I agree with Harrison, the general principle of taking the opportunities
> that present themselves, are small steps, to open spaces and create the
> conditions for a more healthy and effective living.
> But do not be deluded.
> One thing is the people who work in banks, and another thing is the owners
> of the banks.
> One thing is that banks are necessary for the development of the economy,
> and another thing is that the people's economy is controlled by banks.
> Banking has become a predatory lender. Examples of bank loan shark behavior
> abound in all countries.
> I wonder then. How to open spaces for the development of an economy where
> the banking one's own contribution without usury?
> How can we provide, as a community, the development of an enabling
> environment to prevent potential abuse and abused?
> How can we open up spaces for politics and economics are made more from love
> than from the ambition and greed?
> Is it appropriate to ask ourselves as a community in these issues?
> A big hug
> Jorge Amigo
>
> El 29-01-2013 14:16, Brett Barndt escribió:
>
>> Harrison,
>>
>> Great to see this topic on OSlist. Very very very important for
>> caring, concerned, and socially engaged people to educate ourselves
>> about this important and fundamental topic. In fact, there are
>> alternatives to this system and Sh* does not need to happen quite like
>> it does. The Sh* is a product of the system as it is designed. There
>> are alternatives, and it is high time we resurfaced those alternatives
>> in consciousness after a century of power institution efforts to erase
>> them.
>>
>> There is some very good history by Farley Grubb of UDelaware on the
>> origins of bank power over our economy. It turns out a significant
>> number of the Founding Fathers were bank shareholders in the Bank of
>> the United States. Farley Grubb makes it pretty clear that the
>> Founders and the "Money Interests" got what they wanted by limiting
>> the ability of local communities and states to issue their own money
>> into circulation.
>>
>> They made sure that the private banking industry would have control
>> over the money supply, to expand it when they want to, and then
>> contract when they need to for their own profit purposes.
>>
>> This system is in stark contrast to the colonial period when
>> individual colonies issued currency into circulation for services
>> rendered to the colony. i.e. community.
>>
>> Banks may be part of our economic life, but the way they create the
>> money supply through debts is an arbitrary form emanating from England
>> with the Bank of England. They used that system all over the empire
>> precisely because it draws the fruits of productive effort and human
>> transformative energy ever more toward a center of fewer and fewer
>> owners. The IMF then pushed it out to more places in the world after
>> "independence" and the replacement of the British Empire.
>>
>> The system was also foisted upon European countries in the days of
>> "classical" or "liberal" economics. The system itself as designed
>> explains why wealth and income is so concentrated in these economies,
>> and why more and more are rendered property-less wage earners
>> perpetually in debt to the owners of the banks at the heart of the
>> economic system.
>>
>> It turns out that the "open space" of the Constitutional Conventions
>> in Philadelphia in the 17980s were not so open since bank shareholders
>> were the preponderance of the attendees at the "open space". And,
>> evidently there were several similar "coup d'etats" against real
>> dialogue and all voices being heard over time at strategic moments
>> from then until now. The Shays and Whiskey Rebellions arose only a few
>> short years after this money monopoly was established as evidence
>> enough of its unjust outcomes.
>>
>> We need to open that space again and revisit these constitutions and
>> all the law codes that privilege creditors, banks, and their
>> beneficial owners over everybody else who really are the ones creating
>> everything that's created underlying the economy. It is after all a
>> human economy.
>>
>> We all need to learn more vocabulary about the choices available to us
>> for how money comes into existence. This is what now needs to happen
>> in Open Space. Conventional wisdom, lack of knowledge, propaganda, and
>> loss of agency have taken away our knowledge about the origins of
>> money, and the power dynamics inherent in those origins.
>>
>> Like Grubb and other historians studying about money in these early
>> Constitutional Conventions like to say, "the average red neck farmer
>> in the Carolinas knew more about money and where it comes from than
>> the average Ivy League educated law student today."
>>
>> And, I witnessed his questioning the audience about origin of money to
>> an audience of law students at Columbia University just last week!
>>
>> We had better wake up from our slumber about these dark details. The
>> Spanish banks are not the only ones who have a lot to cover up with
>> feel good warm and fuzzy commercials. They have taken the nation to
>> the brink of disaster. 26% unemployment, and like in Greece, rising
>> suicide rates.
>>
>> As a Canadian visitor asked a group of young activists in December in
>> NYC, "do you Americans know what has happened to your country? Do you
>> know what it is like to come by train from Toronto and cross the
>> border at Niagara Falls to see boarded up and abandoned houses? And, 8
>> hours of train past disused factories and towns all over New York
>> State? Do you know what happens when the wealth of a generation gets
>> wiped out?"
>>
>> Of course they did not know what happens...maybe that would be wisdom
>> for European grandparents to contribute!
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Eleder – As you may have noticed, we had a few problems with Banks here
>>> in
>>> the USA. Some of it was due to outright incompetence, some to criminal
>>> greed
>>> and  some more to simple mistakes (both honest and stupid). All told it
>>> looked like another day in Human Land with the good, the bad, and the
>>> ugly
>>> and a net result that Banks in general became #1 on the List of folks you
>>> love to hate. Been there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But all that said, Banks are an essential part of our economic life and
>>> we
>>> certainly need to take them to task when they do some of the darker
>>> things
>>> that they did. At the same time I believe we need to encourage them when
>>> they take some positive, albeit faltering steps, for example the video.
>>> Most
>>> of all, Banks (like all other human institutions) desperately need some
>>> broader open space. Having had several (banks) as clients I can say that
>>> these poor folks ( and I really mean that) spend their lives in
>>> suffocating
>>> conditions filled with rules, regulations, pecking orders, petty power
>>> plays
>>> – to the point that they are isolated from each other and most especially
>>> from the world beyond. One effect of this is that when some part of their
>>> system goes seriously off the track and displays truly sick behavior,
>>> that
>>> pathology is amplified by the closeness, not unlike a bad abscess.
>>> Carrying
>>> the analogy – the first step towards a cure is to let in some fresh air
>>> and
>>> light (open the space). Given the space/time the conscience of their
>>> colleagues has a chance to clean things up, and when the space is opened
>>> even wider, the whole community can render the same function.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t think this is rosy-eyed idealism… Fact is, Banks are just another
>>> part of humanity, and sh… does happen. And when it does, some fresh air
>>> helps. So it seems to me that anytime we have the opportunity to open
>>> some
>>> space, we should seize that moment. Maybe the opening is just a little
>>> bit…
>>> but you have to start somewhere.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Harrison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Harrison Owen
>>>
>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>>
>>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>>
>>> USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>>>
>>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>>
>>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.openspaceworld.com
>>>
>>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>>>
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>>> OSLIST
>>> Go
>>> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Eleder_BuM
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:36 AM
>>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] An offering!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Harrison, my friend! I was curious on your opinion, thanks for sharing!
>>>
>>> I try all my best not to be a sour puss, kill joy, Grinch,... :-)! You
>>> know
>>> I really enjoy singing, dancing, laughing,...  but I have my own limits
>>> and
>>> days, and I feel much better after expressing the shadows also.
>>>
>>> Specially when (reading the previous messages) people seemed to ignore
>>> the
>>> whole stuff (light and shadow), that was so apparent to me with this
>>> commercial.
>>>
>>> (Maybe I´m too sensitive with banks now. Last time suicides are on the
>>> headlines -quite near Sabadell, the place of this bank and spot-, due to
>>> people being taking out of the houses where they used to live, because
>>> they
>>> are no more able to pay the loans they signed,... maybe just another
>>> campaing?)
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure "even banks can do it", of course there are nice people in banks,..
>>> but
>>> I still have a mix of feelings watching the commercial.
>>>
>>> And, concerning the subject of this list, I still think that the piece in
>>> Sabadell seems quite different from self organized and emergent,
>>> spontaneus,...
>>>
>>> Thanks to this great conversation I recalled another commercial video
>>> related to banks in Spain. This one was recorded in Sevilla some 2 years
>>> ago. It´s not Beethoven, It´s a plain "rumba", but the lyrics are a real
>>> fun
>>> ;-)!
>>>
>>> And the stuff seems to me much more real. There is even some conflict,
>>> confussion, chaos at the end,... One can sense there was not much money
>>> for
>>> the artists,  but lots of humour and spirit... Enjoy yourselves :-)!
>>>
>>> http://in-fluyendo.blogspot.com.es/2011/01/ole.html
>>>
>>> May people working for banks have soon the opportunity to participate in
>>> regular OST events as the one described by Lisa to handle their/our main
>>> issues and opportunities!
>>>
>>> This day we will probably have one less thing to do (commercials :-) and
>>> the
>>> whole community will join in joy and musical, artful spirit,... let´s
>>> dream
>>> :-)!
>>>
>>> Love,
>>>
>>> @Eleder_BuM
>>> www.burumapak.blogspot.com
>>> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
>>> www.bilbohiria.com/gaika/berbaz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/1/28 Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>>>
>>> Eleder – you old sour puss, kill joy, Grinch. Don’t you know that even
>>> Banks
>>> can spread some joy? Actually any time anybody wants to do a commercial
>>> as
>>> gorgeous as that one, I say bring it on! Sets a whole new standard that
>>> needs to be repeated (IMHO – which thanks to Artur I now know what that
>>> means). And since everything is open space (IMHO X 2), I guess even Banks
>>> can do it. J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ho
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Harrison Owen
>>>
>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>>
>>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>>
>>> USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>>>
>>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>>
>>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.openspaceworld.com
>>>
>>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>>>
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>>> OSLIST
>>> Go
>>> to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Eleder_BuM
>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:10 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] An offering!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Anne and all friends around,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This music feels us with positivity, sure, and the stuff may resemble
>>> Open
>>> Space,...
>>>
>>> I´ll add, anyway, that..
>>>
>>> it is a commercial for a bank (and this awakens not-so-uplifting emotions
>>> inside me :-o) and
>>> the concert seems quite different from self organized and emergent.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> long life and much love from Bilbao, on this bright day after some rainy
>>> weeks,
>>>
>>> @Eleder_BuM
>>> www.burumapak.blogspot.com
>>> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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