[OSList] Unsubscribing issues
Stanley Park
spark.osk at gmail.com
Fri Nov 16 17:38:55 PST 2012
Robin, have you tried this?
↓
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
All the best,
Spark
2012. 11. 16. 오후 11:25에 "Robin Bowles" <cara at cooptel.net>님이 작성:
> Dear all
>
> Though it has been interesting to be part of this group, it is no longer
> relevant and I would like to unsubscribe.
>
> I have sent many, many emails to this effect - no one has replied and I am
> on the list. I have even marked your emails as spam and they are still
> getting through!
>
> Please will someone remove me from this list?
>
> Many thanks in anticipation.
>
> In friendship,
> Robin
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Nov 2012, at 21:04, oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
>
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: How do we manage time in an evening+morning shortish OS?
> (II part of:: How do we invite key and high conflicted people?)
> (Eleder_BuM)
> 2. Re: How do we manage time in an evening+morning shortish OS?
> (II part of:: How do we invite key and high conflicted people?)
> (Suzanne Daigle)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:37:13 +0100
> From: Eleder_BuM <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> <OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] How do we manage time in an evening+morning
> shortish OS? (II part of:: How do we invite key and high conflicted
> people?)
> Message-ID:
> <CAK1+_w9Cqyt0AVg0ZU2eVpZdz8GfJmJW_a8v7EDK0Z_ZOU17Sg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi lovely people around! Some lines with feedback of one OS meeting I
> presented on the list.
>
> The Open Space meeting in Zerain has been fantastic and has offered us some
> learning also. Here you can watch a picture of the opening in the church of
> the village and read the conversations?
> reports<http://zerainherrieredua.wordpress.com/>.
> Have you got any Basque speaker around? A good chance to approach her/him
> for a coffee,.. :o)!
>
> At last, no one from "the critics" came. They were invited, they liked the
> idea,... but no one came around. Would they have come if we as facilitators
> had met them in a previous meeting? How could we have the sponsors and
> thier critics to think the big question and write and expand the invitation
> together?
>
> Sponsors seemed easy with this, though, ("we invited them, we would have
> liked them in,... but whoever comes,...". Yes, the 1st principle brought
> them a big amount of serenity...:o)!
>
> Maybe next time? This will be an important issue in the evaluation meeting.
>
> People loved OS. Many of them said at the closing thinks like...
> "I was very afraid of such a long meeting,... and it happened to feel
> short..."
> "I was afraid of one more fashion technique, that tend to be mainly
> bubbles,... but this felt very simple and deep stuff..."
>
> After reading your wise advice, finally, I opted to open the possibility
> for new subjects+action proposals during the second morning (The OS, was
> Friday 16:00-21:00 + Saturday 10:00-14:00). The group stayed in just more
> conversations (not much action proposed yet), with some inspirations for
> future action, yes. My learning here was clear. As Lisa had suggested, it
> would have been easier for me to propose from the beginning a just
> conversation OS. Perhaps asking (in the last 30 minutes before the closing)
> for action ideas and quick multivoting, maybe .
>
> Thanks so much for your support,
>
> xoxo,
>
> @Eleder_BuM <http://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM>
>
> pd: I co-facilitated with someone new to OS, but very experienced in other
> kinds of facilitation, Asier Gallastegi <http://korapilatzen.com/blog/>,
> and the work as a tandem was fantastic. I (no car) even drove his car (he
> has no licence) :D! Besides, he has done a great visual documenting work,
> and we?ll be editing and publishing it soon.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/10/23 Eleder_BuM <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>
>
> Some weeks ago I asked some questions regarding and OS in which we had a
>
> big concern: how to invite a small and conflicted group (you can see the
>
> message below),... After a conversation beween both parts it seems that
>
> this group is willing to come to the OS.
>
>
> Now I come with another question.
>
>
> - the subject is quite broad (*The self-managing model of our town:
>
> how do we make it a continually innovating one? *. You can see context
>
> and subject below).
>
> - we have scheduled Friday (16:00-21:00) & Saturday (10:00-14:00),
>
> shiortish I would say, for such a wide topic and conflicted context,...
>
> - we told the promotors that we would have action proposals and first
>
> meetings during the second morning... and I?m thinking now that might be
> an
>
> error. I?m afraid that we are giving too short time for just
>
> conversations as they emerge, forcing a bit all the stuff to have a
> report
>
> with *recommended actions*
>
>
> The thing as we had proposed would be sth like:
>
>
> Friday 15:30 reception; 16: openinng; 17: first convs; 18: 15; 2nd convs;
>
> 19: 30: 3rd convs 20: 45 evening news
>
>
> Saturday: 10:00 morning anouncements; 10:30 Action proposals 11:00 Action
>
> teams meetings 12:30 Action teams short reports 13:00 closing
>
>
> *I would like better now sth more spaced and real* (things tend to delay
>
> a bit around here :o), like:
>
>
> Friday 15:30 reception; 16: openinng; 17:30 first convs; 19:00 2nd convs;
>
> 20:30 evening news
>
>
> Saturday: 10:00 morning anouncements; *10:30 3rd convs *(from first day
>
> proposals)* 12:00 Action proposals+meetings+short reporting *13:30 closing
>
>
> but this kind of Saturday morning would be new to me, combining stuff from
>
> first day proposals with time for action proposals,...convening the big
>
> dircle at midday 12:00 for new action proposals,... and I feel a bit
>
> unsure that would be working fine...
>
>
> Any similar experience? Any suggestions?
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> ** <https://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM>@Eleder_BuM
>
> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com (En) www.burumapak.blogspot.com (Basque)
>
> www.in-fluyendo.blogspot.com (Sp) www.bilbohiria.com/gaika/berbaz (radio)
>
>
>
>
> Context:
>
> A 300 people?s village council. They are proud for their 40 years
>
> experience of self-management, very common in the ancient Basque tradition,
>
> but very uncommon here, these days. Every 4 years people that want to get
>
> involved in the administration will appear, and citizens choose (before the
>
> official polls) who will be the representatives. Then the 7 people more
>
> voted form the only list on the official polls and form the ruling team for
>
> the next 4 years.
>
>
> Then, some 8 self-managed and executive teams are formed (whoever comes
>
> been the right people; nowadays some 60-80 people taking part
>
> regularly),...
>
>
> Political parties -that rule the neighbour towns- have no word here. "It?s
>
> just we the people who govern ourselves".
>
>
> Sponsor:
>
> The 7 elected people that now are ruling. 6 amateurs, just one technician
>
> paid.
>
>
> Subject: *The self-managing model of our town: how do we make it a
>
> continually innovating one? *
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> From: Eleder_BuM <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>
>
> Date: 2012/9/14
>
> Subject: How do we invite key and high conflicted people?
>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <
>
> OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>
>
>
> Hi all !
>
>
> Last day we had the first meeting with the sponsors of a 1?5 OS. We expect
>
> som 70 participants.
>
> We could define the subject, dates (9th & 10th Nov). We designed the
>
> invitation text and process. We arranged for the logistics,...
>
>
> There?s still something important un solved. I?ll try to explain it
>
> shortly:
>
>
> Context:
>
> A 300 people?s village council. They are proud for their 40 years
>
> experience of self-management, very common in the ancient Basque tradition,
>
> but very uncommon here, these days. Every 4 years people that want to get
>
> involved in the administration will appear, and citizens choose (before the
>
> official polls) who will be the representatives. Then the 7 people more
>
> voted form the only list on the official polls and form the ruling team for
>
> the next 4 years.
>
>
> Then, some 8 self-managed and executive teams are formed (whoever comes
>
> been the right people; nowadays some 60-80 people taking part
>
> regularly),...
>
>
> Political parties -that rule the neighbour towns- have no word here. "It?s
>
> just we the people who govern ourselves".
>
>
> Sponsor:
>
> The 7 elected people that now are ruling. 6 amateurs, just one technician
>
> paid.
>
>
> Subject: *The self-managing model of our town: how do we make it a
>
> continually innovating one? *
>
>
> There?s *a group of some 10 people highly opposed to the managing and
>
> ruling model*. They have become a problem for the ruling team. The mayor
>
> said on the meeting: *"I would like to sleep well after taking
>
> decissions..."*. They are part of main political parties and are said to
>
> be planning to "break the self-management tradition ". Last months they
>
> have written and put in the post-boxes of the neighbours very critical
>
> annonimous writings against the council team,...
>
>
> Invitation:
>
>
> The sponsors want* to have all the people from the town rethink, adapt,
>
> their model. They want that everyone feels part of it. They want that even
>
> the minorities can feel represented. *
>
>
> But they say that "the others" just usually say ?*"I don?t like this;
>
> neither this; neither this,... "* but don?t help to solve anything.
>
>
> We?ll invite, too, people from outside the village to enrich the
>
> conversations, bring some fresh air and new views,...
>
>
> Problem:
>
> They think that this "10 opponents" will probably refuse coming. Everyone
>
> of us agreed that the OS would be richer if they take part. That conflict
>
> could transform in great new process,...
>
>
> During the meeting we agreed that the person of the sponsors (council team
>
> of 7) in best terms with the "leader" of the opponents would meet her and
>
> explain that the OS will be a good opportunity to find solutions to the
>
> conflict and grow for everyone,...
>
>
> Some questions:
>
>
> - how would you act as facilitators?
>
> - Should we just wait and see?
>
> - If, as expected, they decline the invitation, should we as "neutral"
>
> facilitators have another try to have then come?
>
> - Should we contact the sponsors before they meet the opponents and
>
> ask to be present during this invitation meeting?
>
> - Could it be better to tell the sponsor "let us contact the opponents
>
> directly and meet them, as you are part of the conflict and they will
>
> probably refuse you"?
>
> - Could we invite them to co-write the invitation, to take part in the
>
> designing process?...
>
>
> After several OS processes facilitated since Berlin, this one is probably
>
> the one that best fits the 5 conditions for OS... it has deep conflict! I?m
>
> eager with it, yeah! And I would really love to have *all *the system in
>
> the room, and the highly conflicted minority are an important part, I
>
> guess...
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> Enjoy this great day,
>
>
> Eleder
>
>
> @Eleder_BuM <http://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM> (Twitter)
>
> www.burumapak.blogspot.com
>
> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
>
> <http://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20121115/2bbd230c/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 04:55:00 -0500
> From: Suzanne Daigle <sdaigle4 at gmail.com>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] How do we manage time in an evening+morning
> shortish OS? (II part of:: How do we invite key and high conflicted
> people?)
> Message-ID:
> <CAJh+fLCn78ou-daJ-NbwwhWggbewbZpqys3F-prg-2yR6043QQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Wonderful Eleder! Loved reading this and feeling the energy of the group.
> On Nov 15, 2012 4:40 AM, "Eleder_BuM" <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi lovely people around! Some lines with feedback of one OS meeting I
>
> presented on the list.
>
>
> The Open Space meeting in Zerain has been fantastic and has offered us
>
> some learning also. Here you can watch a picture of the opening in the
>
> church of the village and read the conversations? reports<
> http://zerainherrieredua.wordpress.com/>.
>
> Have you got any Basque speaker around? A good chance to approach her/him
>
> for a coffee,.. :o)!
>
>
> At last, no one from "the critics" came. They were invited, they liked the
>
> idea,... but no one came around. Would they have come if we as facilitators
>
> had met them in a previous meeting? How could we have the sponsors and
>
> thier critics to think the big question and write and expand the invitation
>
> together?
>
>
> Sponsors seemed easy with this, though, ("we invited them, we would have
>
> liked them in,... but whoever comes,...". Yes, the 1st principle brought
>
> them a big amount of serenity...:o)!
>
>
> Maybe next time? This will be an important issue in the evaluation meeting.
>
>
> People loved OS. Many of them said at the closing thinks like...
>
> "I was very afraid of such a long meeting,... and it happened to feel
>
> short..."
>
> "I was afraid of one more fashion technique, that tend to be mainly
>
> bubbles,... but this felt very simple and deep stuff..."
>
>
> After reading your wise advice, finally, I opted to open the possibility
>
> for new subjects+action proposals during the second morning (The OS, was
>
> Friday 16:00-21:00 + Saturday 10:00-14:00). The group stayed in just more
>
> conversations (not much action proposed yet), with some inspirations for
>
> future action, yes. My learning here was clear. As Lisa had suggested, it
>
> would have been easier for me to propose from the beginning a just
>
> conversation OS. Perhaps asking (in the last 30 minutes before the closing)
>
> for action ideas and quick multivoting, maybe .
>
>
> Thanks so much for your support,
>
>
> xoxo,
>
>
> @Eleder_BuM <http://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM>
>
>
> pd: I co-facilitated with someone new to OS, but very experienced in other
>
> kinds of facilitation, Asier Gallastegi <http://korapilatzen.com/blog/>,
>
> and the work as a tandem was fantastic. I (no car) even drove his car (he
>
> has no licence) :D! Besides, he has done a great visual documenting work,
>
> and we?ll be editing and publishing it soon.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/10/23 Eleder_BuM <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>
>
>
> Some weeks ago I asked some questions regarding and OS in which we had a
>
> big concern: how to invite a small and conflicted group (you can see the
>
> message below),... After a conversation beween both parts it seems that
>
> this group is willing to come to the OS.
>
>
> Now I come with another question.
>
>
> - the subject is quite broad (*The self-managing model of our town:
>
> how do we make it a continually innovating one? *. You can see
>
> context and subject below).
>
> - we have scheduled Friday (16:00-21:00) & Saturday (10:00-14:00),
>
> shiortish I would say, for such a wide topic and conflicted context,...
>
> - we told the promotors that we would have action proposals and first
>
> meetings during the second morning... and I?m thinking now that might be
> an
>
> error. I?m afraid that we are giving too short time for just
>
> conversations as they emerge, forcing a bit all the stuff to have a
> report
>
> with *recommended actions*
>
>
> The thing as we had proposed would be sth like:
>
>
> Friday 15:30 reception; 16: openinng; 17: first convs; 18: 15; 2nd convs;
>
> 19: 30: 3rd convs 20: 45 evening news
>
>
> Saturday: 10:00 morning anouncements; 10:30 Action proposals 11:00 Action
>
> teams meetings 12:30 Action teams short reports 13:00 closing
>
>
> *I would like better now sth more spaced and real* (things tend to delay
>
> a bit around here :o), like:
>
>
> Friday 15:30 reception; 16: openinng; 17:30 first convs; 19:00 2nd convs;
>
> 20:30 evening news
>
>
> Saturday: 10:00 morning anouncements; *10:30 3rd convs *(from first day
>
> proposals)* 12:00 Action proposals+meetings+short reporting *13:30
>
> closing
>
>
> but this kind of Saturday morning would be new to me, combining stuff
>
> from first day proposals with time for action proposals,...convening the
>
> big dircle at midday 12:00 for new action proposals,... and I feel a bit
>
> unsure that would be working fine...
>
>
> Any similar experience? Any suggestions?
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> ** <https://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM>@Eleder_BuM
>
> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com (En) www.burumapak.blogspot.com (Basque)
>
> www.in-fluyendo.blogspot.com (Sp) www.bilbohiria.com/gaika/berbaz (radio)
>
>
>
>
>
> Context:
>
> A 300 people?s village council. They are proud for their 40 years
>
> experience of self-management, very common in the ancient Basque tradition,
>
> but very uncommon here, these days. Every 4 years people that want to get
>
> involved in the administration will appear, and citizens choose (before the
>
> official polls) who will be the representatives. Then the 7 people more
>
> voted form the only list on the official polls and form the ruling team for
>
> the next 4 years.
>
>
> Then, some 8 self-managed and executive teams are formed (whoever comes
>
> been the right people; nowadays some 60-80 people taking part
>
> regularly),...
>
>
> Political parties -that rule the neighbour towns- have no word here.
>
> "It?s just we the people who govern ourselves".
>
>
> Sponsor:
>
> The 7 elected people that now are ruling. 6 amateurs, just one technician
>
> paid.
>
>
> Subject: *The self-managing model of our town: how do we make it a
>
> continually innovating one? *
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> From: Eleder_BuM <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>
>
> Date: 2012/9/14
>
> Subject: How do we invite key and high conflicted people?
>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <
>
> OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>
>
>
> Hi all !
>
>
> Last day we had the first meeting with the sponsors of a 1?5 OS. We
>
> expect som 70 participants.
>
> We could define the subject, dates (9th & 10th Nov). We designed the
>
> invitation text and process. We arranged for the logistics,...
>
>
> There?s still something important un solved. I?ll try to explain it
>
> shortly:
>
>
> Context:
>
> A 300 people?s village council. They are proud for their 40 years
>
> experience of self-management, very common in the ancient Basque tradition,
>
> but very uncommon here, these days. Every 4 years people that want to get
>
> involved in the administration will appear, and citizens choose (before the
>
> official polls) who will be the representatives. Then the 7 people more
>
> voted form the only list on the official polls and form the ruling team for
>
> the next 4 years.
>
>
> Then, some 8 self-managed and executive teams are formed (whoever comes
>
> been the right people; nowadays some 60-80 people taking part
>
> regularly),...
>
>
> Political parties -that rule the neighbour towns- have no word here.
>
> "It?s just we the people who govern ourselves".
>
>
> Sponsor:
>
> The 7 elected people that now are ruling. 6 amateurs, just one technician
>
> paid.
>
>
> Subject: *The self-managing model of our town: how do we make it a
>
> continually innovating one? *
>
>
> There?s *a group of some 10 people highly opposed to the managing and
>
> ruling model*. They have become a problem for the ruling team. The mayor
>
> said on the meeting: *"I would like to sleep well after taking
>
> decissions..."*. They are part of main political parties and are said to
>
> be planning to "break the self-management tradition ". Last months they
>
> have written and put in the post-boxes of the neighbours very critical
>
> annonimous writings against the council team,...
>
>
> Invitation:
>
>
> The sponsors want* to have all the people from the town rethink, adapt,
>
> their model. They want that everyone feels part of it. They want that even
>
> the minorities can feel represented. *
>
>
> But they say that "the others" just usually say ?*"I don?t like this;
>
> neither this; neither this,... "* but don?t help to solve anything.
>
>
> We?ll invite, too, people from outside the village to enrich the
>
> conversations, bring some fresh air and new views,...
>
>
> Problem:
>
> They think that this "10 opponents" will probably refuse coming. Everyone
>
> of us agreed that the OS would be richer if they take part. That conflict
>
> could transform in great new process,...
>
>
> During the meeting we agreed that the person of the sponsors (council
>
> team of 7) in best terms with the "leader" of the opponents would meet her
>
> and explain that the OS will be a good opportunity to find solutions to the
>
> conflict and grow for everyone,...
>
>
> Some questions:
>
>
> - how would you act as facilitators?
>
> - Should we just wait and see?
>
> - If, as expected, they decline the invitation, should we as
>
> "neutral" facilitators have another try to have then come?
>
> - Should we contact the sponsors before they meet the opponents and
>
> ask to be present during this invitation meeting?
>
> - Could it be better to tell the sponsor "let us contact the
>
> opponents directly and meet them, as you are part of the conflict and
> they
>
> will probably refuse you"?
>
> - Could we invite them to co-write the invitation, to take part in
>
> the designing process?...
>
>
> After several OS processes facilitated since Berlin, this one is probably
>
> the one that best fits the 5 conditions for OS... it has deep conflict! I?m
>
> eager with it, yeah! And I would really love to have *all *the system in
>
> the room, and the highly conflicted minority are an important part, I
>
> guess...
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> Enjoy this great day,
>
>
> Eleder
>
>
> @Eleder_BuM <http://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM> (Twitter)
>
> www.burumapak.blogspot.com
>
> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
>
> <http://twitter.com/Eleder_BuM>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OSList mailing list
>
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>
>
>
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> http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20121115/9bc0e3f2/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
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