[OSList] Advice please

Robin Bowles cara at cooptel.net
Sun Nov 25 07:10:47 PST 2012 

unsubscribe info pls

In friendship,
Robin




On 24 Nov 2012, at 21:04, oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we? (JL Walker)
>   2. The Joys of Grief -- With Thanks to Harold (Harrison Owen)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 22:39:47 -0300
> From: "JL Walker" <jlwalker at terra.cl>
> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'"
> 	<oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we?
> Message-ID: <009901cdc9e4$99573c50$cc05b4f0$@cl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I also think is a beautiful poem Mikk that as you have said has emerged
> naturally, and from my part I have received the original just in time. All
> of that is a real gift!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Juan Luis
> 
> 
> 
> De: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] En nombre de Mikk Sarv
> Enviado el: viernes, 23 de noviembre de 2012 17:59
> Para: Artur Silva; World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Asunto: Re: [OSList] Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we?
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Artur,
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen it on OS list either, I don't know why. Sometimes it just
> happens with my e-mails to list. :-( 
> 
> I am lucky that at least some people can receive and spread them.
> 
> With this message I actually did not intended to make a poem, I wrote what I
> thought. But reading it over now - it is really like a poem!
> 
> Thank you and Koos and Doug for nice words! I am happy that you liked it.
> 
> 
> 
> With greetings,
> 
> 
> 
> Mikk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 23, 2012, at 5:34 PM, Artur Silva wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not seen your initial message, Mikk, until Koos answered it. It did
> not came to me L
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it is excellent! Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artur
> 
> 
> 
>  _____  
> 
> From: Koos de Heer <koos at auryn.nl>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>; World wide Open Space Technology email
> list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> 
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 8:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we?
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Mikk, Thank you!
> 
> Made my day.
> 
> Koos
> 
> At 17:57 22-11-2012, Mikk Sarv wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I think opening space is also creation of structure. 
> The structure is like a body, where Spirit can live. 
> When the body gets old, it dies and Spirit leaves the body. 
> But Spirit needs the body or structure. 
> 
> Long moments of silence at the beginning are like pain of birth. 
> After OS event everybody often feels like newborn. 
> People, who like Structure, might feel Spirit as something evil, what
> destroys everything. 
> People who like Spirit may feel the Structure as evil. 
> But they both are just sides of the same dance. 
> Opening Space is giving birth. It offers for Spirit a new body/structure to
> go on with dance.
> 
> With greetings,
> 
> Mikk Sarv
> 
> 
> On Nov 22, 2012, at 4:45 PM, JL Walker wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Arno,
> Anticipating the response of HO, I can take the risk to say that the
> structures of management are always part of the map and the structure of the
> principles and the law of OS is always part of the territory.
> Make sense for you this?
> Hugs,
> Juan Luis
> 
> De: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] En nombre deArno Baltin
> Enviado el: jueves, 22 de noviembre de 2012 4:51
> Para: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Asunto: Re: [OSList] Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we?
> 
> Dear Harrisson!
> 
> Could you please elaborate on the difference between creating a structure
> and opening space. When facilitating OS meeting I also create a structure by
> setting the space and introducing the rules and law (isn't it?). And at the
> end of OS I leave the space opened as inviting to take the structure (of
> mind - some attitudes based on the OS experience, ther rules and law) with. 
> 
> Be well,
> 
>      Arno 
> 
> Narva mnt 25, 10120 Tallinn
>           Eesti Vabariik
> 
> 
> 
> 2012/11/21 Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Juan Luis ? Always nice to hear from you! And my answer to your question is
> something like this: Only create structure when you have to, and then create
> as little as you possibly can. Structure is useful in organizations, but it
> certainly can get in the way. So don?t overdo it. Ask yourself, ?What is the
> minimal amount of structure necessary to get the job done.? It is always
> easy to add if you need it, but once some structure is created (committee,
> procedure, etc) it seems to stay around forever, even when nobody can
> remember what it was for?
> 
> Harrison
> 
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
> 
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> Camden, Maine 20854
> 
> Phone 301-365-2093 <x-msg://1335/> 
> (summer)  207-763-3261 <x-msg://1335/> 
> 
> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20/> 
> www.ho-image.com (Personal <http://www.ho-image.com%20%28personal/>
> Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
> Go to: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>  
> 
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:
> oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> <mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org> ] On Behalf OfJL Walker
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:53 PM
> To: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we?
> 
> Many thanks Harrison. Just now I could give me time to read everything about
> your email slowly.
> Makes me much sense for the moment that we are living here in Chile with our
> CDIC project (Centro de Desarrollo de la Inteligencia Colectiva), when we
> started to give us account that would be necessary some structure.
> The question is how we can move forward without that decays the Spirit and
> what could be the structure that would allow that purpose?
> Hugs,
> Juan Luis
> 
> De: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [
> mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> <mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org> ] En nombre deHarrison Owen
> Enviado el: lunes, 19 de noviembre de 2012 21:27
> Para: 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
> Asunto: [OSList] Beginnings, Middles and Ends... Where are we?
> 
> I?ve been thinking about us, or should I say OS?.
> 
> It seems to be a truth of life that everything (us included) has a
> beginning, middle and an end. The separation between beginning and end can
> be quite various (longer or shorter), but one thing is for certain. For
> every beginning, there is an end. Along the way it is inevitable that people
> ask, how are they doing, and what next?
> 
> What is true for life in general seems to be true for organizations of all
> sorts, including ours, by which I mean the Good Old OS Community. Perhaps
> you never thought of the OS Community as an organization, and certainly if
> you understand organization to be what might be called The Standard Model
> (The Leader, Board of Directors, and all the Rest) the OS Community doesn?t
> qualify. On the other hand, were you to look at what OS Inc. has done, that
> assessment changes, I think. As a matter of fact there are loads of Standard
> Model organizations that don?t even come close to our accomplishments. First
> of all we have been around for 27 years with thousands of ?members? all over
> the world. Each year ?we? produce global gatherings in multiple places,
> along with training programs and consultations. And when it comes to the end
> product, Opening Space, the numbers get a little mind boggling. Not bad at
> all ? just don?t look too closely at how it all gets done. J So how are we
> doing? Well past the Beginning for sure, but what now, and where next?
> 
> Quite a while ago, I found myself thinking and writing a lot about the
> natural life cycle of organizations (?Spirit: Transformation and Development
> in Organizations? and ?The Power of Spirit?). Beginnings, middles and ends
> were pretty central to this ? but there was more. All about what seemed to
> be happening along the way, and what, if anything, we might do about that.
> 
> To represent my understanding of the natural history of organizations, I
> came up with a simple graph which, for lack of a better term, became known
> as The Spirit Chart. Unfortunately we cannot do graphics here on OSLIST, but
> the graph is simplicity itself, and so I am sure that you can quickly draw
> it, or imagine it in your mind?s eye. The vertical axis is titled ?level?
> and the horizontal axis is ?time.? On the chart, there are two lines, one
> called ?Spirit? and the other ?Structure.? At Time 1 (the beginning) Spirit
> is high and Structure is low. Over time (moving from left to right) the
> lines cross in the middle, and at the end -- Spirit is low, and Structure is
> high. And there you have it: Beginning, Middle, and End.
> 
> As you might suspect, I did not gather masses of data in order to construct
> my chart. Indeed I really can?t imagine precisely what that data might be or
> how to gather it. All that said, common sense and experience supports the
> story that the graph seeks to tell? All organizations start out with High
> Spirit(s) ? and virtually no Structure. At the moment of creation it is all
> potential, a wonderful idea, a gigantic WOW! The good news is that something
> is moving and shaking. Excitement and optimism rule the day. But there is a
> price. Orderly procedures simply do not exist, massive amounts of energy is
> burned for minimal results, the Wheel is constantly re-invented.
> 
> But then things change. Rules and Structures are created to focus and direct
> all that wonderful Spirit. Initially there is resistance from some Free
> Spirited Folks, but the net result is positive and beneficial.  Work gets
> done, schedules are kept, product goes out the door. And best of all there
> is plenty of Free Spirit around to creatively explore new opportunities, new
> ways of doing business.
> 
> But over time, the lines cross. The Spirit Line and the Structure Line
> intersect and then separate, with Structure rising and Spirit falling, being
> constrained in smaller and smaller spaces by the overburden of Structure.
> For a while nobody notices, for the organization is doing the business in
> productive and orderly ways, and who could complain about that? But there
> comes a time when the organization is defined and imprisoned by its
> structure and rules. Spirit is in evidence mostly by its absence ? except in
> the stories and memories of how it ?used to be.? When you are out of Spirit,
> you are out of business. At least that is the story.
> 
> But there could be a different ending. Were it somehow possible to release
> the Spirit from its prison,  renewal might happen. But for that to occur,
> the prison walls must break. Or to put it in slightly different terms, the
> confining structure must shatter so that the Spirit may reform in new ways.
> This, I think, is an accurate, albeit metaphorical picture of
> Transformation: Spirit breaking loose to take on new form (trans-form).
> 
> So where are we? Clearly we have had our initial WOW! And although it is
> certainly true that each time some new person joins our happy Tribe, having
> just experienced the opening of space for some group of people ? that WOW is
> heard once more. It is also true that for a large (and increasing) number of
> our band the experience is no longer a strange one. We?ve been there before,
> and while it is always a delight, it really becomes quite predictable. I
> would never say boring, but predictable for sure. Sit in a circle, create a
> bulletin board, open a market place, and the folks will go to work. Every
> time.
> 
> The curious thing is that 27 years into our adventure, our organization is
> still as lively and spirit filled as it is ? a status that just about
> everybody recognizes in all of our common gatherings, as for example the
> recent WOSONOS in London. In my own experience of organizational life, this
> record is pretty remarkable. In every other organization I have known, or
> been a part of, by the time it reached its 27thyear, an awful lot of the
> original Spirit, enthusiasm, to say nothing of agility and flexibility had
> disappeared.  People talk about ?mature organizations? -- when they finally
> got beyond the ?wild days in the garage? (computer start-ups, for example)
> and settled down into a more orderly mode of being. Think of Amazon, Apple,
> Microsoft, et al. Somehow we seem to have escaped some of that, and how
> could that be?
> 
> I think part of the answer comes from the nature of our ?product? and what
> we do. The truth of the matter is that every time we think we have it all
> figured out, and have ?finally? arrived at the ?right? way of doing things ?
> we are in for some surprises. It turns out that we really didn?t know what
> we were talking about. Somehow, Open Space was/is so much more than we ever
> thought, and what we do/did, so much less. What starts out looking like just
> another approach to better meetings or group technique subtly morphs into
> the story of the cosmos (self organization). And we really don?t DO anything
> at all. We simply offer an invitation, and then get out of the way.
> 
> To be sure, there has been a developmental process in our approach as we
> have gone along, but it apparently moves in the diametrically opposite
> direction from similar processes found with other approaches. Put it all
> under the heading of ?Thinking of one more thing NOT to do? and pretty soon
> (well maybe someday) ? we?ll end up with nothing. No approach at all!
> 
> Of course, there have been a few signs of approaching Middle Age. You might
> call it hardening of the organizational arteries ? conversations about the
> ?right? way to conduct an Open Space, usually accompanied by an expanding
> list of critical details with attendant Do?s and Don?ts. Fortunately we then
> receive a marvelous report (Sandy Gee, being the latest) how just about
> everything was ?wrong? ? but surprisingly ? it all worked just perfectly.
> 
> To be sure I have heard some chatter about ?guidelines? (Thomas H. J) ? but
> no proposal that we ?get ourselves organized? ? and certainly nothing as
> forbidding as a governmental structure with appropriate Boards and Bylaws!
> So we seem to be dodging the bullet, at least for the moment. And it may be
> that we have some distance to go before the end. I doubt, however, that our
> longevity will ever have anything to do with what might be called The
> Standard Organizational Approach, usually characterized as
> ?institutionalization.? Indeed I more  than suspect that once again we will
> find success by going in the opposite direction. Rather than building
> durable structures that might last for the ages (none do ? so far) ? it will
> be a story of the constant shattering of structures and procedures to
> release the Spirit in new and vital directions. Transformation, I believe it
> is called.
> 
> But there will come an end, of that I have no doubt. But I hope that the end
> of OS Inc might occur with hardly a ripple or note. Not unlike old soldiers
> who never seem to die ? they just fade away. OS Inc will become quite
> invisible when it is clear to all that everything is Open Space. Blending
> into the woodwork, as it were. Nothing new, Nothing special. Just what is.
> 
> 
> Harrison
> 
> 
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
> 
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> Camden, Maine 20854
> 
> Phone 301-365-2093 <x-msg://1335/> 
> (summer)  207-763-3261 <x-msg://1335/> 
> 
> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20/> 
> www.ho-image.com (Personal <http://www.ho-image.com%20%28personal/>
> Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
> Go to: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>  
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:44:18 -0500
> From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net>
> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'"
> 	<oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: [OSList] The Joys of Grief -- With Thanks to Harold
> Message-ID: <000601cdca62$f32b7650$d98262f0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Harold ? the best part of your message came at the end, and for me it was
> the most important therefore deserving its own special note? Something about
> the ?Joys of Grief.?
> 
> 
> 
> Harold said: ?As you said in Wave Rider, OST has a deep connection to the
> grieving process that Elisabeth K?bler-Ross described as a part of facing
> death. Which for me is fascinating given how much joy I always experience -
> but it is almost always accompanied other deep emotions as well.?
> 
> 
> 
> You have put your finger on an important point, which may seem paradoxical
> or even contradictory, but really is neither. The truth is, grieving (or
> more properly The Grief Work Process) is fundamentally joyful, even
> triumphant, at least that is the intent which is realized only when the
> process comes to completion. Simply put, it is the way we as human beings
> move from loss to renewal, from ending to new beginning, from the encounter
> with death to the experience of new life. Of course, if the process is
> aborted along the way, the final results are inevitably dismal and painful. 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously what I have said above can be viewed a total nonsense, or worse,
> but stick with me, and I think I can get you there? But first something
> about the connection to Open Space. It will come as no surprise that I find
> Open Space to be nothing more than self organization at work. In a word,
> Open Space works because self organization works. And, self organization is
> itself a process.
> 
> 
> 
> The process of self organization can be described in infinite, complex
> detail, but reduced to essentials, the steps are as follows: Order, Chaos,
> New and more complex order. It goes like this. Once upon a time there was
> this organization, a fine human system that lived a comfortable productive
> life. All seemed right with the world, but one day that world changed, and
> what was once a comfortable fit became increasingly challenging. The poor
> organization did all that it could, going this way and that -- seeking a
> path. But to no avail ? and comfortable order dissolved into PAINFUL chaos.
> But there is, or at least there can be a next chapter. Through the alchemy
> of self organization new and more complex order appears, and life goes on.
> But the question abides. How do we get from here to there? How do we deal
> with the pain? The answer, I think, is the Grief Work Process.
> 
> 
> 
> Elisabeth K?bler-Ross made history when she identified and described the
> essential steps we all go through in the face of Death, our own or that of
> another. In my work it became clear that groups of people (organizations) go
> through exactly the same process when faced with ending. And that ending can
> come in all sorts of flavors: the end of a project, the end of a way of
> life, the ending of a company ? but the response is identical in all
> situations. At the moment of ending, which I have characterized as an ?Oh
> Shit Moment,? there is Shock and Anger. This is followed by Denial, then
> Memories (Stories of how it used to be), Despair ? the bitter/sweet instant
> of letting it all go. Then we come to Open Space, intense silence with
> nothing there and everything potential. The process comes to an end when two
> magic words are spoken, ?I wonder if?? I wonder if I/we can build a new
> company, find a new career, meet a new life partner. When wonder and
> imagination come together, there you have Vision, and the cycle is complete.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously I have covered a lot of territory with very few details. If you
> want more check out my book ?Wave Rider.? But hopefully I have said enough
> so that at the least you get the function and flavor of Grief Work. To be
> sure, it begins at a very painful moment, but the end of the story is all
> about joy. Functionally, Griefwork is the means by which we as human beings
> navigate the painful parts of self-organization. Things end, and that is
> always painful. But when they re-organize (self-organize) life goes on, and
> Griefwork gets us there. I find it to be hardwired into our humanity. We
> don?t have to think about it at all ? works all by itself. Each step is
> necessary, and none can be skipped, no matter how much we might like to move
> directly from ending to new beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> Another way of looking at Grief Work ? It is what human self-organizing
> systems do as a major part of the adaptive process. And here is the
> connection to Open Space Technology: To the extent that OST is
> self-organization at work, it is equally and also Grief Work at work.
> Knowing this, and being acutely sensitive to what is going on, can be
> extraordinarily helpful to our understanding of what is happening with our
> clients, and what they may be doing/saying/manifesting during the time in
> Open Space. 
> 
> 
> 
> A related factor is that Griefwork, like all other aspects of self
> organization, function best when there is sufficient time/space (open space)
> to move around in. Things shut down when arbitrary control is imposed ? and
> that is sadly what happens often in the everyday world of organizations.
> Most obviously, nobody wants to talk about dying/ending. And those who do
> are often viewed as strange, weird, pessimists, or macabre. Definitely a
> no-no! And when there is such conversation it can only be entered into under
> controlled circumstance ? quietly and in moderation. Is it any wonder then
> that when space is suddenly opened, the unspeakable is spoken? That Open
> Space is so often experienced as an amazing passage from controlled silence
> to serious Joy?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Harold for surfacing a critical element in our ?practice.? As we
> move along from beginnings, to middles ? and ask ourselves about What Nexts?
> ? I would believe that we have the details of the process (OST) down pretty
> well, AND I know there are vast areas to explore and understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Harrison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harrison Owen
> 
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> 
> Potomac, MD 20854
> 
> USA
> 
> 
> 
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> 
> Camden, Maine 20854
> 
> 
> 
> Phone 301-365-2093
> 
> (summer)  207-763-3261
> 
> 
> 
> www.openspaceworld.com 
> 
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> 
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
> Go to:
> <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> 
> 
> 
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