[OSList] Teach Them to Fish / A Note to My Friends

[Stanley Park]

Abundance seems to be a sociospiritual issue of ourkind. It seems that it
can be found only within and inbetween. - spark
2012. 2. 26. 오전 4:43에 "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net>님이 작성:

> Bernd - No problem. Totally understand where you are coming from. At the
> end of the day if you empower someone, by whatever means or degree - you
> have, at least to some real extent, dis-empowered them. Or at the very
> least, further encumbered their situation. All that said there are indeed
> times when the ONLY thing you can do in the moment is hand out a fish.
> Starving people, still less dead ones - don't learn very well... to fish or
> anything else. However, if your actions end with fish distribution, or
> almost as destructive, you do teach them to fish, but then hover over their
> shoulders to make sure they do it RIGHT, well that is a different kettle of
> fish (sorry about that J). Maybe there is a sequence here - Fish
> Distributors, Fishing Teachers, and then "Gone fish 'in" - looking for
> other fish to fry. Or something.****
>
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> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:
> oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Bernhard Weber
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 25, 2012 1:24 AM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Teach Them to Fish / A Note to My Friends****
>
> ** **
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> Harrison, ****
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> ** **
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> I have been living so long under conditions where the giver/beggar word
> pairing is not only a metaphor (Beira is the capital of Sofala province in
> Mozambique), so I had to deal with the problem also at a very practical
> level and on base of that I want to say:****
>
> ** **
>
> I fully agree ****
>
> and would like to complete something that I wrote in my last posting in
> answering what Artur has written. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes the giver-beggar relation creates conditions for helplessness and
> continued dependence and subservience. And yes, the dynamics is independent
> from altruistic intentions.****
>
> And I would complete, if you have a feeling for yourself and/or a
> spiritual perspective this means, such kind of giving is also bad for the
> giver, his/her mental costume and/or karma.****
>
> ** **
>
> But when I wrote in my last posting: sometimes you should also give the
> fish (meaning that nobody who is starved can learn) isn't that a
> contradiction?****
>
> Yes it is, but****
>
> a) contradictions as such are not necessarily bad. At least they are good
> for triggering thinking processes if not for more (like being a basic
> ingredient for self-organization, this also refers to the dissence-thread
> of this groups)****
>
> b) it all depends on the real process. If temporary dependence is a price
> for helping out from helplessness so that further steps can follow, like
> learning, like disappearing of the giver, teacher, blurring/integrating of
> roles to teacherlearners and learnerteachers, I would say it is an
> acceptable price****
>
> ** **
>
> Bernd****
>
> ** **
>
> On Feb 24, 2012, at 3:01 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> The secondary point may be less than obvious. When you are simply handed a
> fish the conditions for learned helplessness and continued dependence, to
> say nothing of subservience are created. Even with the best, most
> altruistic intentions in the world, a fish handout has its problems. ****
>
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