[OSList] Conversation today with Brian Burt of MaestroConference

Koos de Heer koos at auryn.nl
Wed Aug 29 12:57:43 PDT 2012


Hi Michael,

Thanks for your comments! Great idea to keep 
using the same infrastructure to continue the 
work after the pressure cooker event. It is like 
coming back to the place of inspiration/incubation to continue the work.

How to give participants a good visual 
experience...? I am afraid this visualization 
thing might keep me awake for a little bit tonight... :-(

New patio furniture? That is nice! I will 
definitely stop by for another lunch when I am on 
your side of the great pond again. :-)

Time to sleep now in my time zone. More later!

Koos

At 20:59 29-8-2012, Michael Herman wrote:
>some more notes below, koos...
>
>--
>
>Michael Herman
>Michael Herman Associates
>312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>http://MichaelHerman.com
>http://ManorNeighbors.com
>http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Koos de Heer <koos at auryn.nl> wrote:
> > Hi Michael!
> >
> > Good start! I can see that happening. At the same time, I wonder how far I
> > would want to go with this stretched space-time thing. Open Space - in my
> > experience - often has the character of a pressure cooker. A lot gets done
> > in a short time and that is not only a great result in the end, but it also
> > means a lot during the event. Already while 
> the event is progressing, people
> > say things like: something is really 
> happening here! And they're thrilled to
> > be a part of it and it increases the level of their contribution. Which in
> > turn inspires and stimulates others as well.
>
>i wasn't thinking of this so much as "the" event space, as the
>after-event space, a place for ongoing working conversations, to
>accomplish all the stuff created in the cooker of a big os.  now, i
>think it can also be a option instead of the big event, but where an
>event is necessarily limited, this medium doesn't have to be.  it
>could also be very useful for those who aren't willing to take a leap
>in a big event, but might grow into this sort of platform over time,
>inviting more and more people to different things.  so i see the
>potential benefit of this being less like open space meetings and more
>like ongoing open space -- so open space becomes more and more "just
>the way we get things done."
>
>
> >
> > If you take out the element of limited time, I think you might lose this
> > dynamic. Of course you can also go too far in the limiting of time. I once
> > took part in an Open Space Online meeting where the time limit was enforced
> > a little too strictly. This was back in the early days. When the time slot
> > for a session ended, all the participants 
> were kicked out of the session and
> > the session was closed by the system. There was no "when it is over, it is
> > over." It was more like: "It is over when the clock says it is over." So I
> > would let the participants in a break out group deciede whether they are
> > done or not. And I would make it very easy for all the participants to see
> > at what time the other sessions will start.
>
> >
> > That is the nice thing about this technology. 
> You don't have to walk over to
> > the plenary room to go look at the agenda. You can have a side bar on your
> > screen showing the sessions that are about to start, sorted by start time.
> > You could even list the sessions there that are already running, to
> > facilitate bumble beeing.
>
>participant control of timing and ending seems essential, agreed.
>also, this is an important way to think about what should be viewable
>on the screen... what do we normally look around and see.  not just
>breakout groups, but their size, their volume/energy, and their notes,
>if they've started taking them or not, etc.
>
>
> >
> > To get back to Brian's questions: what we 
> need to think about is how you are
> > going to announce the topics. With online technology like this, you can
> > easily let everyone post their session topics online and let them choose a
> > time slot. The number of break out spaces is much more flexible than in a
> > real building. But how do you get people to listen to the other topics that
> > are listed and how do you get the topics 
> spread out in time evenly? Not that
> > you have to, but if all the sessions are at the beginning, the participants
> > will be stretched really thin. And later on 
> in the meeting there will not be
> > many interesting sessions any more because all the good stuff was right at
> > the start. I think I would like some sort of structure where those people
> > who want to announce a topic have to line up for the microphone and they
> > announce their topic to the entire audience one by one. Or is that too
> > rigid? In a real meeting, you see people writing their topics and choosing
> > time slots etc.
>
>i think a lot of these concerns are same as in live os.  and much of
>it can take care of itself, same as live.  i would think they could be
>read out in the first plenary session, everybody take turns.  i think
>you're right in thinking terms of what can be seen normally in the
>room... is there some way that folks would queue up for reading out
>their topics... and how about how to signal them that they don't need
>to make a speech and encourage them to finish and go tape it up?
>trickier online than simply giving them a look or gently tugging the
>microphone to signal.  is there some way for people to post their
>topic but only have it displayed for all after they read it out?  or
>is that too weird, cuz it would require the event convener to be a
>sort of gatekeeper?
>
>
>
>  If you are just waiting for your turn behind your computer,
> > it can become quite lonely and boring. We would have to find a way to
> > visualize what is going on.
>
>this is a very interesting... what do people normally see?  i mean
>when they're on a conference call or webinar... just me and my phone
>and my screen... and not really any way to show a "place".  it's all
>just text... or is it... what if there was some sort of randomization
>of cameras to show a number of people talking... or what if in each
>breakout, there is a virtual talking stick that is claimed, so that
>their camera feed could show in a small box on the screen when it's
>their turn to talk?  such a device might be helpful in other moments,
>with large groups.
>
>Like when you choose a time, you can see how
> > many sessions there already are at each 
> available start time. You could also
> > have a visualization of the agenda wall that 
> you see growing as sessions are
> > added. And maybe an icon of a pen and paper next to someone's name if that
> > person is in the process of entering a topic.
> >
> > Something to think about in the whole thing is what you would want to do by
> > audio and what by typing or clicking ( not to speak of drawing and sharing
> > what's on your screen). I am sure the folks 
> at Maestro have some ideas about
> > that already. But that was not the question at this point...
> >
> > This is really fun to play with!
> >
>
>and to do together!  spent some time this morning repainting some
>patio furniture we inherited... so next time you're here we will have
>a proper place to eat!
>
>looking forward to what others can add to this... or if there are more
>questions, brian.
>
>m
>
>
>
> > Koos
> >
> >
> > At 15:09 29-8-2012, Michael Herman wrote:
> >>
> >> logistics of topics and schedule...  first thoughts...
> >>
> >> i think it might work pretty much like it does when we're face to
> >> face.  there's one big group, a short briefing, and then a chance for
> >> anyone in the large group to post their name/topic.  i think there
> >> might be a host-designated grid of posting times, same as some people
> >> have done in the f2f meetings.
> >>
> >> now, the interesting wrinkle in what you're providing, brian, is that
> >> when we're not all in the same place and time, boxed in by plane
> >> rides, then the schedule grid could be set up to span days or weeks or
> >> even an ongoing series of conversations that don't end until the work
> >> does.  so the host-set starting grid might be one session long, today,
> >> or might stretch out indefinitely.
> >>
> >> so in this way, the "opening" is the session where this all gets
> >> briefed, oriented, trained, and set up, and then there is one or more
> >> breakouts.  in this way, future plenary sessions like evening and
> >> morning news sessions might still be evening and morning, or they
> >> might be week 1 news, week 2 news... or they might be january news or
> >> quarterly news.... but they'd all be able to be scheduled and take
> >> place in the same way any and all breakouts happen.  it might be good
> >> practice and worth prompting the host at set up to set one or more
> >> plenary times.  it might be set that no other sessions could be
> >> scheduled at those times, or that might be left for informal agreement
> >> within the group.  maybe it's a check box option for the host when
> >> setting those times.
> >>
> >> so there's an opening session.  where there is posting and announcing
> >> of sessions.  then breakouts which are a multiplication of the first
> >> session, with some sort of posting wall to support it.  there are
> >> specialized breakouts marked as plenaries.  and finally, a specialized
> >> plenary, marked as closing.  and while we're specializing, i wonder if
> >> being able to specify something like a "sub-theme" or "track" or maybe
> >> better a "stream" might allow for wider use and cross-pollination
> >> among projects or departments or other more fixed areas of focus, over
> >> the longer term, so that several open space streams in one group or
> >> organization might be flowing through the same schedule grid.  this
> >> might also support longer term complex projects in giving one layer of
> >> description between the main theme and the individual breakouts.
> >>
> >> this brings us to the point of taking notes, but that's beyond your
> >> question, i think.  <grin>
> >>
> >> one more thing... backing up a bit, brian... it might be helpful for
> >> people on the list here, who might be thinking about this and wanting
> >> to help, to hear from you a short description of what maestro
> >> conference provides now.  it's there in the website, on different
> >> pages and customer focused, but it'd be good to have even 3-5
> >> sentences that describes it from a functional perspective, "this is
> >> what it does now" sort of thing.
> >>
> >> m
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Michael Herman
> >> Michael Herman Associates
> >> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
> >>
> >> http://MichaelHerman.com
> >> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> >> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:12 AM, Brian Burt <brian.burt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Thanks Harold.
> >> >
> >> >> I think if they would allow people to move themselves by some simple
> >> >> interface into the different rooms
> >> >
> >> > We definitely have that in mind and so appreciate people contributing
> >> > with
> >> > hearts and minds
> >> >
> >> > Harold & All: How would you see the initial segment of collectively
> >> > brainstorming/proposing topics and landing on a schedule, especially
> >> > with
> >> > hundreds (or more) of participants?  (pardon my ignorance of the terms)
> >> >
> >> > We'll be digging in later but I welcome more thoughts.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you,
> >> >
> >> > On Aug 24, 2012 9:38 PM, "Harold Shinsato" <harold at shinsato.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Suzanne,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for pursuing this possibility with Maestro. I think I gave some
> >> >> input about this earlier. I find that the model that I experienced of
> >> >> Maestro conference was that it was optimized for people giving
> >> >> workshops who
> >> >> would then control the breakout groups.
> >> >>
> >> >> For Open Space, it doesn't seem to work well to put this decision
> >> >> making
> >> >> process into the hands of the facilitator. It loses the self-organizing
> >> >> feel.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think if they would allow people to move themselves by some simple
> >> >> interface into the different rooms - either with a web interface or by
> >> >> pressing numbers on the phone (like many people know to press *6 to
> >> >> mute
> >> >> themselves, something like *9 could give a prompt to ask for a room
> >> >> number)
> >> >> - you could cheaply and easily get the feeling of open space. Though
> >> >> I'd
> >> >> suggest having some experiments and then adjusting based on findings.
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree with Koos - the simpler the better. I also wonder if there is a
> >> >> "google hangout" method that could be used to combine voice and video.
> >> >> Could
> >> >> this be done already? How do you compete with free? In any case, please
> >> >> include me on the list of people interested. Thanks!
> >> >>
> >> >>     Regards,
> >> >>     Harold
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 8/24/12 12:53 PM, Suzanne Daigle wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi Everyone,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks for being so responsive, brimming with ideas and information,
> >> >>> love
> >> >>> the skepticism too!  It is so cool to learn about the work that has
> >> >>> been
> >> >>> done over the years to develop an on-line virtual experience of Open
> >> >>> Space.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Brian Curt is on this list so he will be seeing these emails in real
> >> >>> time. I'm guessing others at MaestroConference may also be monitoring.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Definitely we're not starting from scratch --much has been done and
> >> >>> when
> >> >>> you add the powerful and unique features of MaestroConference with
> >> >>> their
> >> >>> strategic vision to optimize their technology for Open Space, it gets
> >> >>> even
> >> >>> more exciting. We may have the makings for something pretty darn
> >> >>> great,
> >> >>> taking us, step by step, to the next level and bringing more Open
> >> >>> Space to
> >> >>> the world -- a blend of  face-to-face and enhanced virtual.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I don't know what y'all think and I don't mind tracking the names.  At
> >> >>> this "emergent" stage of the game, it would be wonderful if people
> >> >>> continued
> >> >>> commenting as posts appear, sharing their thoughts and ideas. People
> >> >>> could
> >> >>> also suggest who else should be part of these discussions. I know the
> >> >>> Agile/Scrum Technology community are very invested and aligned with
> >> >>> Open
> >> >>> Space. Many OS trailblazers in that community for sure!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It  might get chaotic, messy and a bit confusing. Yet if we keep the
> >> >>> conversations going, vibrant and chock-full of ideas and information,
> >> >>> it
> >> >>> should lead to a dynamic theme and invitation for the
> >> >>> MaestroConference
> >> >>> Virtual Open Visioning Event planned for the early Fall. No doubt we
> >> >>> would
> >> >>> have a packed house and we'd certainly be getting a good headstart on
> >> >>> things
> >> >>> while managing expectations knowing that we probably won't get this
> >> >>> right
> >> >>> immediately.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On my end, I just wanted to clarify the bit that I am doing -- being
> >> >>> an
> >> >>> equal with all of you, highly receptive to what MaestroConference may
> >> >>> be
> >> >>> envisioning,  keeping a list of names, "being prepared to be
> >> >>> surprised",
> >> >>> doing less rather than more, and leaving lots of room for OS folks to
> >> >>> self-organize and share leadership on this wonderful project wherever
> >> >>> it
> >> >>> leads.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Suzanne
> >> >>>
> >> >>> P.S.  Brian and others at MaestroConference if you reading this,
> >> >>> please
> >> >>> check out WOSonOS London (the annual World Open Space on Open Space is
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> England this year) from October 11th to the 14th. (thanks Spark!)  We
> >> >>> would
> >> >>> love to see you!  Many seasoned Open Space practitioners attending
> >> >>> from
> >> >>> across the globe.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Thomas Herrmann
> >> >>> <thomas at openspaceconsulting.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi Suzanne
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Great idea!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have done quite a lot of virtual facilitation the last years and
> >> >>>> have
> >> >>>> found a software that gives most of the possibilities that I think
> >> >>>> are
> >> >>>> needed ­ even if I have only used it with quite small groups. Several
> >> >>>> of the
> >> >>>> people in the Genuine Contact community use it ­ Blackboard
> >> >>>> Collaborate.
> >> >>>> After testing many many available software we found this which suits
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> needs for participative meetings incl Open Space, very well incl
> >> >>>> reliability.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I am willing to share some of my experiences down the line.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hugs
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thomas Herrmann
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Från: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> >>>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] För Suzanne Daigle
> >> >>>> Skickat: den 24 augusti 2012 04:50
> >> >>>> Till: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> >> >>>> Ämne: [OSList] Conversation today with Brian Burt of
> >> >>>> MaestroConference
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Exciting to imagine! A virtual interface specifically geared to Open
> >> >>>> Space. Brian Burt, CEO and Founder of MaestroConference, and I were
> >> >>>> on the
> >> >>>> phone for about 30 minutes this afternoon.  It was a “jump right in”
> >> >>>> kinda
> >> >>>> conversation with lots of give and take.  No doubt about it,
> >> >>>> MaestroConference has been giving this some thought and Brian Burt
> >> >>>> knows the
> >> >>>> process, principles and language of Open Space.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> In some cases their technology is there and stuff could happen right
> >> >>>> away; other things need to be figured out and then of course, you
> >> >>>> can’t
> >> >>>> totally replicate an in-person experience of Open Space so a hybrid
> >> >>>> virtual
> >> >>>> adaptation would need to be developed.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We talked about the big picture of a Virtual Open Space Social
> >> >>>> Webinar
> >> >>>> platform that would allow hundreds and even thousands of people to
> >> >>>> participate. We also discussed some of the challenges; for example:
> >> >>>> “can you
> >> >>>> really have a virtual conversation with 50 people on-line engaged in
> >> >>>> one
> >> >>>> topic or would we need to break into smaller groups” and “how could
> >> >>>> we
> >> >>>> manage a post-it board with time and place”.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Brian’s plan, along with other folks at Maestro Conference, is to
> >> >>>> host a
> >> >>>> Virtual Open Visioning Event this Fall inviting lots of people (it
> >> >>>> would be
> >> >>>> terrific if many joined) from the Open Space community and folks in
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> technology world (major users of Open Space) to engage in working
> >> >>>> conversations around the interface, the implementation, the
> >> >>>> applications of
> >> >>>> where and how a virtual OS could be used, the invitation process and
> >> >>>> so much
> >> >>>> more.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> What I was able to convey to Brian is that there are many
> >> >>>> practitioners
> >> >>>> in this worldwide OS community, including the OSI US Board, who are
> >> >>>> interested and excited about having a virtual Open Space platform.
> >> >>>> I’ll be
> >> >>>> the first to say that I’m not the expert (nor the leader) in that
> >> >>>> regard but
> >> >>>> I certainly have the passion and am willing to roll up my sleeves
> >> >>>> with
> >> >>>> others to help make it happen.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> At Brian’s request, I’ve agreed to lend a hand if people want to
> >> >>>> advise
> >> >>>> off list that they are interested, feel free to email me. You can
> >> >>>> also do it
> >> >>>> publicly on the OS list and I’ll keep track. MaestroConference is
> >> >>>> also
> >> >>>> interested in knowing if anyone has people they’d recommend who
> >> >>>> should be
> >> >>>> invited to the Fall Event.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> In anticipation of the Virtual Open Visioning Event being planned,
> >> >>>> perhaps we can continue the conversations on our OS list sharing what
> >> >>>> we
> >> >>>> would hope to see, what questions we have, how we may want to
> >> >>>> contribute to
> >> >>>> this  effort. My specific interest related to the virtual technology
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> having the ability to host post-events after a face-to-face Open
> >> >>>> Space,
> >> >>>> continuing the conversations and driving some of the actions and
> >> >>>> initiatives
> >> >>>> that participants identified.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> An early Call to Action that may help Maestro Conference in their
> >> >>>> planning! What do y'all think?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Suzanne
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Suzanne Daigle
> >> >>>> NuFocus Strategic Group
> >> >>>> 7159 Victoria Circle
> >> >>>> University Park, FL 34201
> >> >>>> FL 941-359-8877;
> >> >>>> CT 203-722-2009
> >> >>>> www.nufocusgroup.com
> >> >>>> s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
> >> >>>> twitter @suzannedaigle
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> OSList mailing list
> >> >>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> >>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> >> >>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Suzanne Daigle
> >> >>> NuFocus Strategic Group
> >> >>> 7159 Victoria Circle
> >> >>> University Park, FL 34201
> >> >>> FL 941-359-8877;
> >> >>> CT 203-722-2009
> >> >>> www.nufocusgroup.com
> >> >>> s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
> >> >>> twitter @suzannedaigle
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> OSList mailing list
> >> >>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> >>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Harold Shinsato
> >> >> harold at shinsato.com
> >> >> http://shinsato.com
> >> >> twitter: @hajush
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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