[OSList] Designing an OS way

Mon Sep 19 11:52:48 PDT 2011

Anne – Interesting question
with lots of quirks. So suppose some
“undesirable” appears? Undesirable by who’s standard??? I would guess that
the “new system” would not consider itself “undesirable.” Take, for example,
a recent emergent system in our part of the world: Irene. Leaving aside the
odd question of whether hurricanes have consciousness – one might imagine
that Irene “thought” that her recent journey through the center of the
United States was just another day doing business, doing what hurricanes
always do. Transfer large amounts of energy to eliminate an over plus is a
section of the earth’s atmosphere, provide massive doses of “needed” fresh
water, level mountains and build up the planes – and not incidentally create
a few new beaches along the way. She might point out that were it not for
herself and her siblings over the years – having a nice day at the beach
would not be a possibility. Being a little facetious, perhaps, but it does
occur to me that the universe was not created for our pleasure and
preservation – or something???

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Dr.

Potomac, MD 20854

USA

189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)

Camden, Maine 20854

Phone 301-365-2093

(summer)  207-763-3261

www.openspaceworld.com

www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)

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From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
[mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of ANNE BENNETT
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:53 AM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way

Anyone care to take on the dimension of the desirability of new orders...?
regimes that emerge in open spaces, then contain/exclude/set up perverse
dynamics with other systems and contexts... are a function of the desires of
the actors - their readiness to 'improve/progress/be benign/hold on to good
intentions and espoused values/be moral and ethical etc...' all up for grabs
- yours, avid systems thinker

A

  _____  

From: John Watkins <johnw536 at mac.com>
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
<oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
Sent: Monday, 19 September, 2011 16:17:05
Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way

Florian,

HOWEVER... (and this may be how OST works...  Harrison?) Prigogine and
Stengers also say that...  "in open systems, in far from equilibrium states,
new orders emerge spontaneously."

John

On Sep 19, 2011, at 1:20 AM, fischer florian wrote:

John, that´s wonderful. Finally a clear definition. That works.

Thank you a lot.

Florian

Florian Fischer

ff at begleitung-im-wandel.com

www.begleitung-im-wandel.com <http://www.begleitung-im-wandel.com/> 

Münchener Straße 6

10779 Berlin

Fon (030) 2116752

Am 19.09.2011 um 06:25 schrieb John Watkins:

Artur,

The term "open systems" comes from thermodynamics, especially from Prigogine
and Stengers, who also refer to them as "dissipative" systems.  It does not
mean open to change; it means open in the sense of importing "energy" from
outside itself and excreting "energy" back into the surrounding system.
Such systems are most often self-organizing and self-recreating
(autopoiesis).  They "sort" energy into that which will help them recreate
themselves and that which will not, and they dissipate the rest, creating,
paradoxically, internally order and externally more entropy.  Bureaucracies
are actually great examples of open systems in this regard.

John

On Sep 18, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Artur Silva wrote:

I continue to have a disagreement with you on this point, Harrison.

I agree that "all systems are self organizing -- it is the preexisting
condition here on planet earth"

But I do not conclude that they are all open ! 

Let's think of physical phenomena first - it is self organization that
creates diamonds (see, for instance
http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/diamond_chemistry_formation.html). 

But after they are created, they are not open anymore - they are quit
closed, especially if we compare them with other forms of carbon (like
graphite - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon), not to talk when carbon
is combined with oxygen, to form a gas, like in CO2.

The same is true, IMHO, about organizations. Some are more open, but many
are really closed, like Government burocraties or large companies. And some
are more closed than others (let's take as an example IBM or Microsoft when
compared with Google or Dell). 

This has other consequences, namely in what concerns the organizations'
capacity to learn and adapt to the changing environment.

I don't believe that we can continue to say that we (or the sponsor) "opens
the space", if it was always already open ! 

Indeed, what we do in OST is, IMO, to create a pattern that has been
previously designed - what, many moons ago, I have called the "foundations
of OST" are indeed a pattern - that is different from the patterns of the
World Cafe and, even more different, from the pattern of "Future Search".

I thing that your remarks that we can't "design for self organization"
applies to the "conventional engineering way of thinking about design":
first we design and then we implement and control. 

But if we think about Chris Alexander's "Patterns" to create a "Timeless Way
of Building", from regions, to cities, to neighborhoods, to buildings (see
for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Alexander) we may
create an analogue for organizations and try to imagine what are the
patterns that allow for an organization or community to become more "open"
and then more able to learn. 

This is, I believe, what many of us are doing in many different domains and
situations. 

Regards

Artur

  _____  

From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
To: 76066.515 at compuserve.com; 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
<oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way

Doug -- You may be working too hard. If you start with the idea (I would say
fact) that the folks are already "in" open space, they are just not doing it
as well or intentionally as they might. After all, all systems are self
organizing -- it is the preexisting condition here on planet earth :-) Also,
you have a group of consenting adults (the so called "students.") who
probably have some idea of how they might like to spend time together in a
useful and supportive fashion. If it were me, I would convene a 1 day Open
Space for anybody who cared (presumably students and faculty) with the
theme, "Issues and opportunities for supporting each other as we build our
businesses." It might turn out, for example, that they would rather have a
weekend together once a quarter. Or something totally different.

At the very least you would avoid the awful oxymoron of "organizing a self
organizing system." As for "The Principles, etc" no need to organize a
thing. You would already "be there." And best of all you would be treating
the "students" like adult human beings which I would consider to be a real
plus. 

Harrison 

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Dr.
Potomac, MD 20854
USA

189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
Camden, Maine 20854

Phone 301-365-2093
(summer)  207-763-3261

www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> 
www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com/>  (Personal Website)
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

-----Original Message-----
From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
[mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of douglas germann
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:19 PM
To: oslist
Subject: [OSList] Designing an OS way

Friends--

An opportunity has been dropped in my lap, and I need your help to
noodle it through, please:

A local college created a program for beginning entrepreneurs. They now
have a dozen graduates of this continuing education program, and they
are doing follow-on sessions: once a month, from 9 to 10 am, local
experts present and consult with them. For those who pay the fee for
this continuing portion, this session is mandatory.

Now they want to do something at these monthly meetings which will
encourage them to consult and conspire with one another on the
challenges they are facing as they start their businesses. This is
voluntary.

The sessions would run from 10:30 am to 1:00 pm. Many people may have to
get back to work by 1:00 so may leave early.

They had a 3-hour OS session half way through their program before they
graduated, so most of them have had some experience with OS.

My sense of what they need is to be sounding boards for each other, to
engage one another in deep and meaningful conversation, to have some
bonding or cohesiveness time.

I would like to design some way that uses OS principles that becomes
their way of being together. They would like me to help some of them
learn how to do OST, and that might be part of it.

How would you design an OS way of life for these women for their once a
month meeting?

Thanks!

            :- Doug.

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