[OSList] Designing an OS way

fischer florian florianfischer at ff-wey.com
Mon Sep 19 01:20:49 PDT 2011 

John, that´s wonderful. Finally a clear definition. That works.
Thank you a lot.
Florian

Florian Fischer
ff at begleitung-im-wandel.com
www.begleitung-im-wandel.com
Münchener Straße 6
10779 Berlin
Fon (030) 2116752



Am 19.09.2011 um 06:25 schrieb John Watkins:

> Artur,
>
> The term "open systems" comes from thermodynamics, especially from  
> Prigogine and Stengers, who also refer to them as "dissipative"  
> systems.  It does not mean open to change; it means open in the  
> sense of importing "energy" from outside itself and excreting  
> "energy" back into the surrounding system.  Such systems are most  
> often self-organizing and self-recreating (autopoiesis).  They  
> "sort" energy into that which will help them recreate themselves and  
> that which will not, and they dissipate the rest, creating,  
> paradoxically, internally order and externally more entropy.   
> Bureaucracies are actually great examples of open systems in this  
> regard.
>
> John
>
> On Sep 18, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Artur Silva wrote:
>
>> I continue to have a disagreement with you on this point, Harrison.
>>
>> I agree that "all systems are self organizing -- it is the  
>> preexisting condition here on planet earth"
>>
>> But I do not conclude that they are all open !
>>
>> Let's think of physical phenomena first - it is self organization  
>> that creates diamonds (see, for instance http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/diamond_chemistry_formation.html) 
>> .
>> But after they are created, they are not open anymore - they are  
>> quit closed, especially if we compare them with other forms of  
>> carbon (like graphite - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon),  
>> not to talk when carbon is combined with oxygen, to form a gas,  
>> like in CO2.
>>
>> The same is true, IMHO, about organizations. Some are more open,  
>> but many are really closed, like Government burocraties or large  
>> companies. And some are more closed than others (let's take as an  
>> example IBM or Microsoft when compared with Google or Dell).
>>
>> This has other consequences, namely in what concerns the  
>> organizations' capacity to learn and adapt to the changing  
>> environment.
>>
>> I don't believe that we can continue to say that we (or the  
>> sponsor) "opens the space", if it was always already open !
>>
>> Indeed, what we do in OST is, IMO, to create a pattern that has  
>> been previously designed - what, many moons ago, I have called the  
>> "foundations of OST" are indeed a pattern - that is different from  
>> the patterns of the World Cafe and, even more different, from the  
>> pattern of "Future Search".
>>
>> I thing that your remarks that we can't "design for self  
>> organization" applies to the "conventional engineering way of  
>> thinking about design": first we design and then we implement and  
>> control.
>>
>> But if we think about Chris Alexander's "Patterns" to create a  
>> "Timeless Way of Building", from regions, to cities, to  
>> neighborhoods, to buildings (see for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Alexander) 
>>  we may create an analogue for organizations and try to imagine  
>> what are the patterns that allow for an organization or community  
>> to become more "open" and then more able to learn.
>>
>> This is, I believe, what many of us are doing in many different  
>> domains and situations.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Artur
>>
>> From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>> To: 76066.515 at compuserve.com; 'World wide Open Space Technology  
>> email list' <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 1:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Designing an OS way
>>
>> Doug -- You may be working too hard. If you start with the idea (I  
>> would say
>> fact) that the folks are already "in" open space, they are just not  
>> doing it
>> as well or intentionally as they might. After all, all systems are  
>> self
>> organizing -- it is the preexisting condition here on planet  
>> earth :-) Also,
>> you have a group of consenting adults (the so called "students.") who
>> probably have some idea of how they might like to spend time  
>> together in a
>> useful and supportive fashion. If it were me, I would convene a 1  
>> day Open
>> Space for anybody who cared (presumably students and faculty) with  
>> the
>> theme, "Issues and opportunities for supporting each other as we  
>> build our
>> businesses." It might turn out, for example, that they would rather  
>> have a
>> weekend together once a quarter. Or something totally different.
>>
>> At the very least you would avoid the awful oxymoron of "organizing  
>> a self
>> organizing system." As for "The Principles, etc" no need to  
>> organize a
>> thing. You would already "be there." And best of all you would be  
>> treating
>> the "students" like adult human beings which I would consider to be  
>> a real
>> plus.
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>>
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>> USA
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>> Camden, Maine 20854
>>
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com
>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives  
>> of OSLIST
>> Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of  
>> douglas germann
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:19 PM
>> To: oslist
>> Subject: [OSList] Designing an OS way
>>
>> Friends--
>>
>> An opportunity has been dropped in my lap, and I need your help to
>> noodle it through, please:
>>
>> A local college created a program for beginning entrepreneurs. They  
>> now
>> have a dozen graduates of this continuing education program, and they
>> are doing follow-on sessions: once a month, from 9 to 10 am, local
>> experts present and consult with them. For those who pay the fee for
>> this continuing portion, this session is mandatory.
>>
>> Now they want to do something at these monthly meetings which will
>> encourage them to consult and conspire with one another on the
>> challenges they are facing as they start their businesses. This is
>> voluntary.
>>
>> The sessions would run from 10:30 am to 1:00 pm. Many people may  
>> have to
>> get back to work by 1:00 so may leave early.
>>
>> They had a 3-hour OS session half way through their program before  
>> they
>> graduated, so most of them have had some experience with OS.
>>
>> My sense of what they need is to be sounding boards for each other,  
>> to
>> engage one another in deep and meaningful conversation, to have some
>> bonding or cohesiveness time.
>>
>> I would like to design some way that uses OS principles that becomes
>> their way of being together. They would like me to help some of them
>> learn how to do OST, and that might be part of it.
>>
>> How would you design an OS way of life for these women for their  
>> once a
>> month meeting?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>             :- Doug.
>>
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