[OSList] FW: Welcome to the 5th principle in order to remain 4

Wed Jun 8 11:23:12 PDT 2011

Boy/Girl: This multi-logue brings us around. Apart from the fact that the inseparability of time-space was a fundamental understanding of our world that Einstein brought to us I just notice  that the GENIUS LOCI is something I try to connect with wherever I do a Workshop. And that seems to be connected with this discussion of the 5th principle. For the old romans GENIUS LOCI  was the protective spirit of A PLACE. And Wikipedia writes "In contemporary usage, genius loci usually refers to a location's distinctive atmosphere, or a "spirit of place", rather than necessarily a guardian spirit."

For the participants of my Workshop "Playing with the Waves (of Change) that will start tomorrow I sent an email under the title Genius Loci & Genius Tempus Selcuk Ephesos

and I copy it into this email since I can imagine that some of you might be interested in how the pre-ws-connecting with the genius loci might be done: And I just notice when re-reading it: what some Sufis called the "real master" (= THE WHOLE of a SITUATION = (a very specific) TIME & SPACE & People and Objects and Processes .....

Bernd
...............
Hi
if you are eager to have more "strange inputs" before coming to SELCUK for the Learning Workshop, read this, otherwise ignore it.

To get a pre-WS glimpse at the Spirit of the place you might want to google around:
1, The House of the Virgin Mary (Turkish: Meryemana or Meryem Ana Evi, "Mother Mary's House") is a Christian and Muslim shrine located on Mt. Koressos (Turkish: Bülbüldağı, "Mount Nightingale") in the vicinity of Ephesus, 7 kilometres (4.3 mi) from Selçuk in Turkey.
starting with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_the_Virgin_Mary
continuing with a look at the pictures www.photaki.de/picture-haus-der-jungfrau-maria-meryemana-selcuk_442689.htm
....
So you can decide whether it is worth going to that place during your time here or not

2. another interesting list of research strings might be "Sheyk Bedreddin", "Sheich Bedreddin" "Sheik Bedreddin" or "Sheikh Bedreddin" or "Bedreddin Movement" and or "Dede Sultan" (perhaps excluding documents from the last 5 years to not get facebook accounts of newly self-appointed Dede Sultans) ((Dede means Grandfather and is a honorary title fo ror "Börklüce Mustafa" (= Mustafa with the cap) the radical follower of Sheikh Bedreddin who was the leader of this spiritual-leftist rebellion in the early 15th century in Selcuk. Or "Torlak Kemal" the third most important person of the Bedreddin movement. He was also captured by the sultans troups and killed 1419.
As I wrote in an earlier email I went into a small old stone building about 3 minutes from the Hupfauers Main house and felt like meditating there. Later they told me that it is said that the remains of Börklüce Mustafa alias Dede Sultan rest in one of the two Sarkophags there. So maybe the Genius loci is something that can be felt. 

3. "Sufi" or "Sufism" the mysthic stream of Islam. The Sufis are also called Derwishs. Famous for their trance technique is their circular dance and a very special music. Their trainings methodology was always very modern because they integrate "the whole situation" into the training. This "Whole Situation", nicely utilized by the Sufi master, is the "real master" as they say. Since the group of students is an essential part of "the whole situation", their didactics was using the laws of group-dynamics long before this word or concept existed in the western sphere (Kurt Lewin discovered "group dynamics" there). 

4. For the "genius tempus" (the spirit of the moment/period look for Pentecost, Whitsunday, 
starting with http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfingsten (for the German readers), 
It is all about "pouring out" and "effusing" (flux metaphors) the Holy Ghost, about Illumination, Zen-Buddhist would call it SATORI, about multi-lingual communication and understanding (the Pentecost Miracle). The "simple folks" in many countries practice a lot of rituals around this time that go probably back to the pre-christian era or even to stoneage shamanic rituals.

5. If you prefer a "rational approach" see all this just as triggers for starting rich metaphoric thinking to get more effectivity during our 4 days of f2f-Training

Bernd Weber
> Change Facilitation s.r.o., A Global Partner Who Makes Change Happen in Complex Environments; www.change-facilitation.com, www.change-management-toolbook.com bernd.weber at change-facilitation.org; (iPhone Austria: +43 664 135 4828, landline + 431 5968657); Sri Lanka landline +94 11 2785859, iPhone Sri Lanka: +94 777740757,

NEW: Intensive Learning Workshop 
"Playing with the Waves of Change" 
www.change-facilitation.com/

You want to have the design  for a "Playing with the Waves (of Change) WS 2 completely taylor-made according to your individual learning interests & needs & limitations? Then have a look to the questionnaire at
www.surveymonkey.com/s/5ZDS6JQ

If you get Email from my account <bernd.weber at change-facilitation.org> please do not use the reply button but answer to <weberb at gmx.at>, because my change-facilitation.org INBOX is not working for the time being.

Am 08.06.2011 um 17:22 schrieb <donna.read at managing4wellness.org> <donna.read at managing4wellness.org>:

> Well, I'm not sure that place should not be included. There is some really interesting work being done in the OS Department at Saybrook University on the "power of place."  If anyone is interested, I'll go dig it out.  Best, Donna
> 
> <sigimg1.png>
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [OSList] FW: Welcome to the 5th principle in order to remain
> 4
> From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Date: Tue, June 07, 2011 2:14 pm
> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'"
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> 
> I think I’ve found the secret. It is not so much what I said – but what we all said which was “carried along” as a continuation of the thread. So the answer is Delete, Delete, Delete.
>  
> Maybe?
>  
> Harrison
>  
>  
>  
> Jorge – Welcome! And don’t stay away so long!!
>  
> Two principles about “time.” You’re right! But are both necessary? I thought so at the time (bad pun J). The principles (all of them) popped into my head over a period of years as I noticed the strange things that happened in Open Space – and particularly the strange things that appeared to perplex people. I found myself enunciating the principles as a way of pointing out what they were likely to run into and to suggest that, strange as it might seem, everything would work out just fine.
>  
> The first Principle should make the point. Everybody was always concerned that the “right” people come to a meeting. Usually they meant those people with the political position, the appropriate authority, or the right expertise. The experience, however, went in a very different direction. Often it seemed like that even if NONE of the “right” people showed up still very useful things happened. I confess it took me a while to figure out why that might be true – but  from the start, it just seemed like a fact of life. Counter-intuitive as it might seem, “Whoever comes is the right people.”
>  
> The two “time” Principles showed up for similar reasons. Obviously they are both about time, but very different sorts of time. There is “beginning” time and “ending” time. And people seemed very concerned about each, but for different reasons. I noticed that folks were often sweating the fact that we might not start “on time.” But I also noticed that whenever we started, everything seemed to work out just fine – hence, “Whenever it starts is the right time.”
>  
> Ending time is a different creature. And most people just really don’t want to talk about it. In extreme situations that sort of time is called “death.” But even in more proximate situations, “ending” is something we would rather not confront. Hopefully, things will just go on forever. But  the don’t! All of this becomes quite difficult when we spend a lot of time and effort keeping something going, when in fact it is already ended. Dead so to speak. Companies that have seen better days and should just retire from the field of battle with a good funeral just keep plugging away, wasting massive amounts of human energy and Spirit. In truth they would do everybody a favor, themselves included, if they would just admit the obvious, It’s over! Hence the Principle: “When it is over, it’s over.”
>  
> There is really nothing very arcane and deep theory about these 5 Principles. Just funny things I’ve noticed that sometimes seem to get in people’s way as they move in Open Space. The Principles don’t actually change a thing. What’s going to happen will. But when folks have a “heads-up” it seems to make it a little easier for them.
>  
> Harrison
>  
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
> Phone 301-365-2093
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>  
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Jorge amigo
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:11 AM
> To: 'Jorge amigo'; 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Welcome to the 5th principle in order to remain 4
>  
> Dear community
> I would like to delve a little deeper on the idea that I have raised with the title "Welcome the 5th principle in order to remain 4”.
> First, tell you I appreciate and value the open space is OSLIST virtual. I am basically a peripheral participant OSLIST. Very few times I've written something, but I am a legitimate peripheral to live in freedom and responsibility to participate from time to time on subjects that interest me. 
> And this has been the case. The appearance of the reflections and comments on the 5 th Principle has interested me. I believe that the talks that have emerged on this new principle have been a great contribution to cultivate the spirit of the OS, for to flourish his essence.
> The foundations for the incorporation of this new principle seem solid and have been exhibited with clarity by Harrison Owen and others. This new principle, - which has always been there-, makes me much sense incorporate it into the opening of OS, because it provides an essential distinction to the experience of the spirit of the OS.
> But it was his appearance that made me take a fresh look to each of the other Principles. I wondered what was the equivalent contribution of each one, which led me to review the focus and the ideas associated with each. 
> The focus of the first principle is people. The recognition that whatever is done will be done by people who are there. In our practice as facilitators, with my dear friend Juan Luis, enunciated this principle as "somos los que estamos, estamos los que somos" an expression that our culture promotes the idea that those are the best people to carry out the task . This focus responds to the who / whom 
> The focus of the second, the action is, what is happening, what people do, the experience of what I will do - we will do, I do - we do, I did – we did. The lived process, the successful product. It responds to what
> For me, the focus of the third and fourth principle is only one, is time. Present as one principle helps to raise awareness of the relationship we have with time. From the experience of time to create, to learn. To start and finish. The title of this merger could be "when it starts, it starts, When it is over, it is over." This focus responds to when
> And there is the new principle, which brings the experience of space itself. The place of meeting, whatever, will always be an appropriate place. There is the worry about whether he could be in a better place, once there, this is the right place. Responds to where. 
> That's how I came to wonder the idea of welcoming the principle 5 in order to remain 4. 
> But also in terms of form, I like the idea of 4 to 5 Principles. I think four is more harmonious with the circle of the OS figure. Shape 4 shows key dimensions of life: the 4 cardinal points, the 4 seasons, the 4 basic elements and others. Finally, also, that less is more. 
> But maybe I'm not seeing something important to justify the two principles associated with the time necessary and useful to present them separately. If so, please ask me what they indicate. 
> OS has been effective so far as it is and I believe that the Principles are 4 or 5, does not add anything significant. In any case, try my idea in the next OS to provide.
> Finally, reflect on the subject I have found attractive, I recreated the spirit of OS. 
> A hug for everyone and we hope in Chile, the right place for the next Wosonos. 
> Jorge Amigo
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