OSLIST Digest - 30 Nov 2010 to 1 Dec 2010 (#2010-289)
Ralph Copleman
rcopleman at comcast.net
Thu Dec 2 05:29:32 PST 2010
All,
Regarding our list migration issue, have a look at NPO groups. Small company, very high quality. Been using them for three years for a list I manage for sustainability folks. Cost is 5 US dollars per month for any number of people. (That's for everybody, not per person.) Superior in ease and service to both Yahoo and Google.
Ralph
Ralph Copleman
O: 609-895-1629
C: 609-865-3466
H: 609-896-9714
Sent from my cell phone
On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:00 AM, OSLIST automatic digest system <LISTSERV at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU> wrote:
> There are 21 messages totalling 6192 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. making requests of leaders (2)
> 2. oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act (14)
> 3. oslist archives future (3)
> 4. open space and heros
> 5. SV: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:35:33 -0700
> From: Raffi Aftandelian <raffi_1970 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: making requests of leaders
>
> Lisa,
> Thanks much for taking the time to offer such a careful and considered
> response. This was really helpful! Especially to hear that you don't do i=
> t
> most of the time and the importance of leaving one's own assumptions out.=
>
>
> appreciatively,
> Raffi
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:29:38 -0500
> From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: making requests of leaders
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB9153.6BEC6A40
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Lisa my friend =96 I applaud the sensitive effort you obviously expend =
> in the
> =93prework.=94 But I think I find myself in a different place, perhaps =
> only a
> nuance away? In my conversations with the client prior to an Open Space =
> I
> find myself doing virtually everything you do, although me being me I =
> seek
> to do as little as possible =96 one more thing not to do. J Except =96 I =
> have
> never made any attempt to suppress or equalize the power equation. I =
> have no
> problem talking to anybody (CEO included) about their concerns in this =
> area,
> but that conversation is almost inevitably a short one. I simply tell =
> them
> not to worry about it. If it is suggested that senior managers should =
> =93hold
> back=94 my response is the same, perhaps sharpened a bit by my expressed
> expectation that those senior managers (along with everybody else) will =
> add
> value.
>
> =20
>
> I can understand that some may find my actions irresponsible, naive, or
> both. Irresponsible in the sense that an extreme power play on the part =
> of
> some senior manager could be very painful, and I should prevent that
> possibility. Na=EFve in the sense that I am seemingly blind to the =
> destructive
> power realities in many organizations. Possibly =96 but I do not think =
> it is
> my responsibility to =93fix=94 the organization. However, I fully accept =
> the
> responsibility to open some space so that the organization can fix =
> (heal)
> itself. There are some practical considerations here =96 I simply do =
> not
> possess the wisdom, time, or energy to unravel the organizational =
> pathology.
> However, what I lack, the people of that organization probably possess =
> in
> abundance, and if they don=92t, my feeble efforts will make little =
> difference.
> Indeed those efforts are very likely to make the whole situation worse. =
> My
> task is to create the time/space in which those people can identify =
> their
> own resources and bring them to bear on the issues at hand.
>
> =20
>
> I have to tell you that what I have described above is directly opposed =
> to
> everything I thought I was supposed to be doing. Truth to tell, during =
> the
> first 25 years of my professional life I was a =93fixer=94 for sure. =
> Give me a
> good organizational pathology, and I was all over it like a tent with
> resolution and brilliant solutions just moments away. Or so I thought. =
> What
> changed was Open Space which confronted me with the incredible =
> restorative
> powers of a self organizing system. Not always, not everywhere =96 for
> organizations, like all other life forms, do die. But if there is life =
> and
> the will to live =96 the folks will find the way. Contrast all of this =
> with my
> powers as a fixer, and I wasn=92t even in the ball park. Talk about =
> eating
> Humble Pie!=20
>
> =20
>
> The last 25 years have been wonderful, although the diet of Humble Pie
> continues. I have been privileged to work in some of the most massively
> autocratic, dictatorial situations where it was presumed by one and all =
> that
> the operative power paradigm would simply carry over into the Open Space
> producing pain and destruction for the trusting few who dared raise =
> their
> heads along with new and different ideas. I can=92t say that there were =
> not a
> few bumps along the way, or that all the new ideas found immediate
> acceptance. Truthfully some of those new ideas were plainly stupid. =
> However
> the predicted carnage has never happened. And the truly good news is =
> that
> the people left with genuine empowerment. They knew they had done it all =
> by
> themselves =96 and nobody was pulling any punches. As for the formal =
> leaders
> (CEO and all those nasty senior manager types) they received the =
> education
> of a lifetime. They suddenly saw in glorious living color the robust
> character of all those funny people called =93Employees.=94
>
> =20
>
> Will this always be true? I don=92t know, but it has worked so far.
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> Harrison
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> www.openspaceworld.com
>
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> <mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>
> <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> =20
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lisa =
> Heft
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:31 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: making requests of leaders
>
> =20
>
> Raffi and others -=20
>
> =20
>
> In my experience and approach...
>
> =20
>
> - everything in context,
>
> - do thorough pre-work,
>
> - be aware of culture
>
> - talk in advance about those things that support people of minority or
> diverse viewpoint (not in the OS process but in such things as the
> invitation, signage, whatever is appropriate)
>
> - analyze with the client what (Open Space or otherwise) is the right =
> tool
> for the task, time available, capacity and needs of the organization /
> group, and so on.
>
> =20
>
> So: in my pre-work conversations with the client - especially when I =
> hear
> about a group of mixed levels of perceived or actual power - we talk =
> about
> power dynamics.=20
>
> And then if we agree after our analysis that Open Space is indeed the =
> tool
> we will be selecting for this event, sometimes the client says something
> like "My managers will be there - and they are very into leading and
> directing - and I can see that it is important to let all participants
> experience co-leadership / self-leadership instead. What shall I tell my
> managers so we can help them understand the benefit of not directing
> everybody?"
>
> =20
>
> So we talk about this, and either they say 'Okay I know what I will say =
> to
> them' or they say 'Can you give me some thoughts to help them keep in =
> mind?'
> and we work together in the context of what they are asking, their =
> needs,
> and their work culture. Sometimes the client / supervisor invites them =
> to
> come or not come, but if they come, to be full participants rather than
> directive. Whatever s/he thinks works in her/his cultural context. =
> Sometimes
> they invite me to meet with the managers to answer their questions about =
> the
> upcoming Open Space. Sometimes we even meet at the hotel bar the night
> before and have a casual chat.
>
> =20
>
> And in those times I let them know that if they direct everyone they are
> losing the benefit of this interactive process. It will tell them a =
> great
> deal about emergent leaders in their organization if they step back from
> directing everything and see who shines. And I invite them to be =
> themselves
> - if they feel inspired to post a topic - especially something that =
> comes up
> from within as a juicy puzzle or inquiry - this is the place and time. =20
>
> =20
>
> Sometimes we talk about how if they jump up too soon to fill the space =
> with
> topics, will that leave space for others to emerge, given the power
> dynamics? If they feel that may be an issue, I invite them to therefore =
> let
> others post their topics, see what comes up, go with the flow and then
> announce any topic that inspires them. My response springs from their
> pre-event inquiry.
>
> =20
>
> Sometimes they want me to write up something as a reminder. So I do.
>
> =20
>
> It is again: in context, it springs from conversations with the client =
> and
> their teams, they are often the ones who lead and inquire in this =
> pre-event
> exploration, and I'm there to answer their questions about what I have
> noticed in other similar Open Spaces when people with great power mix =
> with
> people with lesser power in the meeting. All part of the conversation.
>
> =20
>
> I don't do it automatically. I don't do it for every organization I =
> perceive
> to have a strong hierarchy. I don't do it most of the time.=20
>
> That would be a cultural assumption, and it would not be about me =
> listening
> to them.
>
> =20
>
> That, I think, is the nuance, Raffi.
>
> And the context.
>
> =20
>
> Thanks for inviting this exploration,
>
> =20
>
> Lisa
>
> =20
>
> Lisa Heft
>
> Consultant, Facilitator, Educator
>
> Opening Space
>
> lisaheft at openingspace.net
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Raffi Aftandelian wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Queridos amigos,
>
> Muchas gracias for your responses. And I'm surprised to hear at least =
> based
> on the current responses that this practice of encouraging "leaders" to =
> hold
> back is rather uncommon.
>
> I've cross-posted this question to the Genuine Contact list, too.
>
> abrazos,=20
> Raffi
>
> p.s.-- Querido Miguel- I think right now we're a little less lucky here =
> in
> San Diego (and hence if you're calling me a "lucky cat," that probably =
> makes
> me a little less feline, too)-- it has been rather cold here recently...
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> =20
>
> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To =
> subscribe,
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20
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>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
> vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Lisa my friend – I applaud the sensitive effort you obviously =
> expend in the “prework.” But I think I find myself in a =
> different place, perhaps only a nuance away? In my conversations with =
> the client prior to an Open Space I find myself doing virtually =
> everything you do, although me being me I seek to do as little as =
> possible – one more thing not to do. </span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><s=
> pan =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'> Except – I have never made any attempt to suppress or equalize =
> the power equation. I have no problem talking to anybody (CEO included) =
> about their concerns in this area, but that conversation is almost =
> inevitably a short one. I simply tell them not to worry about it. If it =
> is suggested that senior managers should “hold back” my =
> response is the same, perhaps sharpened a bit by my expressed =
> expectation that those senior managers (along with everybody else) will =
> add value.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>I can understand that some may find my actions irresponsible, naive, =
> or both. Irresponsible in the sense that an extreme power play on the =
> part of some senior manager could be very painful, and I should prevent =
> that possibility. Na=EFve in the sense that I am seemingly blind to the =
> destructive power realities in many organizations. Possibly – but =
> I do not think it is my responsibility to “fix” the =
> organization. However, I fully accept the responsibility to open some =
> space so that the organization can fix (heal) itself.=A0 There are some =
> practical considerations here – I simply do not possess the =
> wisdom, time, or energy to unravel the organizational pathology. =
> However, what I lack, the people of that organization probably possess =
> in abundance, and if they don’t, my feeble efforts will make =
> little difference. Indeed those efforts are very likely to make the =
> whole situation worse. My task is to create the time/space in which =
> those people can identify their own resources and bring them to bear on =
> the issues at hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>I have to tell you that what I have described above is directly =
> opposed to everything I thought I was supposed to be doing. Truth to =
> tell, during the first 25 years of my professional life I was a =
> “fixer” for sure. Give me a good organizational pathology, =
> and I was all over it like a tent with resolution and brilliant =
> solutions just moments away. Or so I thought. What changed was Open =
> Space which confronted me with the incredible restorative powers of a =
> self organizing system. Not always, not everywhere – for =
> organizations, like all other life forms, do die. But if there is life =
> and the will to live – the folks will find the way. Contrast all =
> of this with my powers as a fixer, and I wasn’t even in the ball =
> park. Talk about eating Humble Pie! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>The last 25 years have been wonderful, although the diet of Humble =
> Pie continues. I have been privileged to work in some of the most =
> massively autocratic, dictatorial situations where it was presumed by =
> one and all that the operative power paradigm would simply carry over =
> into the Open Space producing pain and destruction for the trusting few =
> who dared raise their heads along with new and different ideas. I =
> can’t say that there were not a few bumps along the way, or that =
> all the new ideas found immediate acceptance. Truthfully some of those =
> new ideas were plainly stupid. However the predicted carnage has never =
> happened. And the truly good news is that the people left with genuine =
> empowerment. They knew they had done it all by themselves – and =
> nobody was pulling any punches. As for the formal leaders (CEO and all =
> those nasty senior manager types) they received the education of a =
> lifetime. They suddenly saw in glorious living color the robust =
> character of all those funny people called =
> “Employees.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Will this always be true? I don’t know, but it has worked so =
> far.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harrison<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a><o:p></o=
> :p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal =
> Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To =
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of =
> </span><a href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:blue'>oslist at listser=
> v.boisestate.edu</span></a><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>:<o:p></o:p=
>> </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></a><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
> style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
> 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
> </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
> OSLIST <a =
> href=3D"mailto:[mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]">[mailto:OSLIST at LI=
> STSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lisa Heft<br><b>Sent:</b> =
> Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: making requests of =
> leaders<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Raffi and =
> others - <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>In my experience and =
> approach...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- =
> everything in context,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- =
> do thorough pre-work,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- be =
> aware of culture<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- talk in =
> advance about those things that support people of minority or diverse =
> viewpoint (not in the OS process but in such things as the invitation, =
> signage, whatever is appropriate)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>- analyze with the client what (Open Space or =
> otherwise) is the right tool for the task, time available, capacity and =
> needs of the organization / group, and so =
> on.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>So: in my pre-work conversations with the client - =
> especially when I hear about a group of mixed levels of perceived or =
> actual power - we talk about power =
> dynamics. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>And then =
> if we agree after our analysis that Open Space is indeed the tool we =
> will be selecting for this event, sometimes the client says something =
> like "My managers will be there - and they are very into leading =
> and directing - and I can see that it is important to let all =
> participants experience co-leadership / self-leadership instead. What =
> shall I tell my managers so we can help them understand the benefit of =
> not directing everybody?"<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>So we talk about this, and either they say 'Okay I =
> know what I will say to them' or they say 'Can you give me some thoughts =
> to help them keep in mind?' and we work together in the context of what =
> they are asking, their needs, and their work culture. Sometimes =
> the client / supervisor invites them to come or not come, but if they =
> come, to be full participants rather than directive. Whatever s/he =
> thinks works in her/his cultural context. Sometimes they invite me to =
> meet with the managers to answer their questions about the upcoming Open =
> Space. Sometimes we even meet at the hotel bar the night before =
> and have a casual chat.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>And in those times I let them know that if they direct =
> everyone they are losing the benefit of this interactive process. =
> It will tell them a great deal about emergent leaders in their =
> organization if they step back from directing everything and see who =
> shines. And I invite them to be themselves - if they feel inspired to =
> post a topic - especially something that comes up from within as a juicy =
> puzzle or inquiry - this is the place and time. =
> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>Sometimes we talk about how if they jump up too soon =
> to fill the space with topics, will that leave space for others to =
> emerge, given the power dynamics? If they feel that may be an =
> issue, I invite them to therefore let others post their topics, see what =
> comes up, go with the flow and then announce any topic that inspires =
> them. My response springs from their pre-event =
> inquiry.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>Sometimes they want me to write up something as a =
> reminder. So I do.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>It is again: in context, it springs from conversations =
> with the client and their teams, they are often the ones who lead and =
> inquire in this pre-event exploration, and I'm there to answer their =
> questions about what I have noticed in other similar Open Spaces when =
> people with great power mix with people with lesser power in the =
> meeting. All part of the conversation.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
> don't do it automatically. I don't do it for every organization I =
> perceive to have a strong hierarchy. I don't do it most of the =
> time. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>That would be =
> a cultural assumption, and it would not be about me listening to =
> them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>That, I think, is the nuance, =
> Raffi.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>And the =
> context.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for inviting this =
> exploration,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>Lisa<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><di=
> v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
> div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
>> <div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> class=3Dapple-style-span><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:blue'>Lisa Heft</span></b></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:#9B2C01'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><=
> div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'>Consultant, Facilitator, =
> Educator<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> class=3Dapple-style-span><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:blue'>Opening Space</span></b></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><a =
> href=3D"mailto:lisaheft at openingspace.net">lisaheft at openingspace.net</a><o=
> :p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></d=
> iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
> v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
>> </div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
> MS","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
> Nov 30, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Raffi Aftandelian =
> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Queridos amigos,<br><br>Muchas gracias =
> for your responses. And I'm surprised to hear at least based<br>on the =
> current responses that this practice of encouraging "leaders" =
> to hold<br>back is rather uncommon.<br><br>I've cross-posted this =
> question to the Genuine Contact list, too.<br><br>abrazos, =
> <br>Raffi<br><br>p.s.-- Querido Miguel- I think right now we're a little =
> less lucky here in<br>San Diego (and hence if you're calling me a =
> "lucky cat," that probably makes<br>me a little less feline, =
> too)-- it has been rather cold here =
> recently...<br><br>*<br>*<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a><br>------------------------------<br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, =
> change your options,<br>view the archives of <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate=
> .edu</a>:<br><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://lists=
> erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><br><br>To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.o=
> rg/oslist</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, =
> change your options, view the archives of <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate=
> .edu</a>: <a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://lists=
> erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.o=
> rg/oslist</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB9153.6BEC6A40--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:47:39 -0600
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> Subject: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --000e0cd1fc6abed9f504965ce695
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> gather round oslisters, and bring your keyboard!
>
> i'm just off the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their
> servers.
>
> here is what we know...
>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of
> next year.
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that)
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x
> 12 years)
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser
> application
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft
> listserv host org
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help
> with... now!
> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's available
> if/when we want to use it
>
> that said...
>
> i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two pieces, past and future,
> an archive and an ongoing conversation. if we can find another listserv
> customer to adopt us, that solves both pieces.
>
> if not, then we need to talk here about options for each piece:
>
> 1. what sort of access is required for the archives? is it enough to make
> them available online some place, as a giant set of text files (zipped up,
> they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable online or just
> downloadable for research mining purposes? what does anyone think about
> raising community money year after year to sustain them in their current
> browsable form? for the techies in our midst... if you want to think of
> creative, non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it
> can stay permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching, i.e.
> convert archive text files to something browsable, you can download a sample
> monthly log file here... http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904
>
> 2. as for the ongoing conversation, the best solution might be a
> googlegroup. yahoogroup might be a close second. what other ways are there
> out there on the web that might support our ongoing community conversation?
> should we leave threaded email altogether? should we leave archiving aside
> and all join facebook? (yikes!) should we learn to converse in
> 140-character tweets? migrate to a forum at the ning site? should we turn
> our convesations into a os-pedia using the same software as wikipedia
> (probably better for organizing information than for actual convesation).
> where should we take the oslist heart of our many global conversations?
>
> while we're having a chat about these two things, anyone and everyone is
> invited to check this list...
> http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp...to see if you know any
> of these organizations well enough that you could
> approach them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list into their
> system. if you have an org to approach, then i can get you the technical
> details they'll want to know about our list, so they know what they'd be
> taking on. you would just need to make the IT contact and ask the
> question. finding another listserv customer to adopt us is the FIRST BEST
> solution. we might buy the service or license the software ourselves, but
> as noted in previous emails, that is not cheap and must be paid annually.
>
> we have until june, but we've been strongly advised to do this as soon as
> possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time, out of our
> control, and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for
> some time, with forwarding pointers from the old site. but those pointers
> will disappear in june, too.
>
> so where should we go from here? and who knows any of those listserv
> customers?
>
> m
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --000e0cd1fc6abed9f504965ce695
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> gather round oslisters, and bring your keyboard!=A0 <br><br>i'm just of=
> f the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their servers.<br><=
> br>here is what we know...<br><br>1. the oslist will cease to exist in its =
> current form not later than june of next year.=A0 <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise sta=
> te is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that)<br>4. =
> our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. they will be in t=
> he form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br>7. they can=
> be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser application<br>8=
> . the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft li=
> stserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help =
> with... now!<br>10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.c=
> om">oslist at googlegroups.com</a> set up, so that's available if/when we =
> want to use it<br>
> <br>that said...<br><br>i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two =
> pieces, past and future, an archive and an ongoing conversation.=A0 if we c=
> an find another listserv customer to adopt us, that solves both pieces.=A0 =
> <br>
> <br>if not, then we need to talk here about options for each piece:<br><br>=
> 1. what sort of access is required for the archives?=A0 is it enough to mak=
> e them available online some place, as a giant set of text files (zipped up=
> , they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable online or just =
> downloadable for research mining purposes?=A0 what does anyone think about =
> raising community money year after year to sustain them in their current br=
> owsable form?=A0 for the techies in our midst... if you want to think of cr=
> eative,=20
> non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it can stay
> permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching, i.e.=20
> convert archive text files to something browsable, you can download a=20
> sample monthly log file here...=20
> <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904">http://www.openspa=
> ceworld.org/oslist.log9904</a>=A0 <br><br>2.=A0 as for the ongoing conversa=
> tion, the best solution might be a googlegroup.=A0 yahoogroup might be a cl=
> ose second.=A0 what other ways are there out there on the web that might su=
> pport our ongoing community conversation?=A0 should we leave threaded email=
> altogether?=A0 should we leave archiving aside and all join facebook?=A0 (=
> yikes!)=A0 should we learn to converse in 140-character tweets?=A0 migrate =
> to a forum at the ning site?=A0 should we turn our convesations into a os-p=
> edia using the same software as wikipedia (probably better for organizing i=
> nformation than for actual convesation).=A0 where should we take the oslist=
> heart of our many global conversations?<br>
> <br>while we're having a chat about these two things, anyone and everyo=
> ne is invited to check this list... <a href=3D"http://www.lsoft.com/custome=
> rs/customers.asp">http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp</a> ...to se=
> e if you know any of these organizations well enough that you could approac=
> h them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list into their system.=
> =A0 if you have an org to approach, then i can get you the technical detail=
> s they'll want to know about our list, so they know what they'd be =
> taking on.=A0 you would just need to make the IT contact and ask the questi=
> on.=A0 finding another listserv customer to adopt us is the FIRST BEST solu=
> tion.=A0 we might buy the service or license the software ourselves, but as=
> noted in previous emails, that is not cheap and must be paid annually.<br>
> <br>we have until june, but we've been strongly advised to do this as s=
> oon as possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time, out of our=
> control, and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for s=
> ome time, with forwarding pointers from the old site.=A0=A0 but those point=
> ers will disappear in june, too.<br>
> <br>so where should we go from here?=A0 and who knows any of those listserv=
> customers?=A0 <br><br>m<br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herm=
> an<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com"=
>> http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a h=
> ref=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a href=
> =3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.or=
> g</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br>=
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --000e0cd1fc6abed9f504965ce695--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:00:16 -0600
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> Subject: oslist archives future
>
> --0015174a050ae5f6f604965d139f
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> well, having launched those two questions about archives and future
> conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.
>
> as it turns out, the link i sent earlier...
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 does actually load up pretty
> nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my
> desktop, previously).
>
> so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would look
> like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere. techies --
> tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page set up so
> that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and search just
> that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference to
> the search terms?
>
> IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when they
> were opened, the search terms would be highlighted. this might make things
> easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just include
> the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" function to locate
> search terms in each page.
>
> main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives than
> simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?
>
> does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search the archives we
> have now??? if so... can you tell us something about your searching???
>
> thanks, m
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --0015174a050ae5f6f604965d139f
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> well, having launched those two questions about archives and future convers=
> ation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.<br><br>as it turns o=
> ut, the link i sent earlier... <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/osl=
> ist.log9904">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904</a> does actually=
> load up pretty nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested =
> it reading from my desktop, previously).=A0 <br>
> <br>so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would =
> look like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere.=A0 te=
> chies -- tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page =
> set up so that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and sear=
> ch just that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made ref=
> erence to the search terms?=A0 <br>
> <br>IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when th=
> ey were opened, the search terms would be highlighted.=A0 this might make t=
> hings easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just i=
> nclude the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" fu=
> nction to locate search terms in each page.=A0 <br>
> <br>main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives=
> than simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?<br clear=3D=
> "all">=A0<br>does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search th=
> e archives we have now???=A0 if so... can you tell us something about your =
> searching???<br>
> <br>thanks, m<br><br><br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associa=
> tes<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerman.com</a=
>> <br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br=
>>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h=
> ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps=
> .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org=
> </a><br>
> <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --0015174a050ae5f6f604965d139f--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 13:24:52 -0500
> From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: oslist archives future
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CB915B.2349ED50
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Michael - You are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through - if they
> ever were. But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE organizations. Can we
> get contact info? If so, could you tell us how? I'm thinking - supposing I
> knew somebody at GWU, I think I would get further if I also had the IT
> contact there. So my friend (if I had one) could make the connection.
>
>
>
> ho
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> www.openspaceworld.com
>
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> <mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>
> <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael
> Herman
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: oslist archives future
>
>
>
> well, having launched those two questions about archives and future
> conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.
>
> as it turns out, the link i sent earlier...
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 does actually load up pretty
> nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my
> desktop, previously).
>
> so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would look
> like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere. techies --
> tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page set up so
> that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and search just
> that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference to
> the search terms?
>
> IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when they
> were opened, the search terms would be highlighted. this might make things
> easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just include
> the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" function to locate
> search terms in each page.
>
> main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives than
> simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?
>
> does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search the archives we
> have now??? if so... can you tell us something about your searching???
>
> thanks, m
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
> * * ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CB915B.2349ED50
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
> xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
> xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =
> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 =
> (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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> {mso-style-priority:99;
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> text-decoration:underline;}
> span.EmailStyle17
> {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
> font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
> color:#1F497D;}
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> {mso-style-type:export-only;}
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> {size:8.5in 11.0in;
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> --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
> vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Michael – You are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through =
> – if they ever were. But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE =
> organizations. Can we get contact info? If so, could you tell us how? =
> I’m thinking – supposing I knew somebody at GWU, I think I =
> would get further if I also had the IT contact there. So my friend (if I =
> had one) could make the connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>ho <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>www.openspaceworld.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To =
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu"><span =
> style=3D'color:blue'>oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</span></a>:<o:p></o:p=
>> </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><span =
> style=3D'color:blue'>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<=
> /span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div =
> style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
> 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
> </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
> OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of =
> </b>Michael Herman<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 =
> PM<br><b>To:</b> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> =
> oslist archives future<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>well, having =
> launched those two questions about archives and future conversation, i =
> need to wade into the archive side of things.<br><br>as it turns out, =
> the link i sent earlier... <a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904">http://www.openspac=
> eworld.org/oslist.log9904</a> does actually load up pretty nicely in a =
> browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my desktop, =
> previously). <br><br>so anyone can take a look at this page and =
> see what the archives would look like IF we just uploaded our 150ish =
> files to a folder somewhere. techies -- tell us please -- could =
> such folder not have a simple search page set up so that anyone could =
> plug in what they wanted to search for and search just that folder, to =
> return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference to the search =
> terms? <br><br>IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf =
> files, then when they were opened, the search terms would be =
> highlighted. this might make things easier for scrolling through, =
> or the search instructions could just include the suggestion to use your =
> browser's "find in page" function to locate search terms in =
> each page. <br><br>main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE =
> with the oslist archives than simply make these 150 long pages available =
> for searching?<br clear=3Dall> <br>does anybody out there go =
> regularly or frequently to search the archives we have now??? if =
> so... can you tell us something about your searching???<br><br>thanks, =
> m<br><br><br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman =
> Associates<br><br><a =
> href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCo=
> rps.org</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br>3=
> 12-280-7838 (mobile)<br>* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CB915B.2349ED50--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:45:57 -0600
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist archives future
>
> --0015174c3fa844397904965db704
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> so far, the customer list itself is all we have. BUT... if we made a list
> of the orgs where we have friends, our guy at boise state might be able to
> tell us more about who to contact. there is a friendly network of listserv
> admin folks and bsu guy has offered to help.
>
> m
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael =96 You are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through =96 if =
> they
>> ever were. But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE organizations. Can =
> we
>> get contact info? If so, could you tell us how? I=92m thinking =96 suppos=
> ing I
>> knew somebody at GWU, I think I would get further if I also had the IT
>> contact there. So my friend (if I had one) could make the connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> ho
>>
>>
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>
>> USA
>>
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com
>>
>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>>
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Mic=
> hael
>> Herman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 PM
>> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> *Subject:* oslist archives future
>>
>>
>>
>> well, having launched those two questions about archives and future
>> conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.
>>
>> as it turns out, the link i sent earlier...
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 does actually load up pretty
>> nicely in a browser, when it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my
>> desktop, previously).
>>
>> so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would lo=
> ok
>> like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere. techies=
> --
>> tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page set up =
> so
>> that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and search just
>> that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made reference=
> to
>> the search terms?
>>
>> IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when they
>> were opened, the search terms would be highlighted. this might make thin=
> gs
>> easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just inclu=
> de
>> the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" function to locate
>> search terms in each page.
>>
>> main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives
>> than simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?
>>
>> does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search the archives =
> we
>> have now??? if so... can you tell us something about your searching???
>>
>> thanks, m
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>>
>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>> http://RonanParkTrail.com
>> http://ManorNeighbors.com
>> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>
>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --0015174c3fa844397904965db704
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> so far, the customer list itself is all we have.=A0 BUT... if we made a lis=
> t of the orgs where we have friends, our guy at boise state might be able t=
> o tell us more about who to contact.=A0 there is a friendly network of list=
> serv admin folks and bsu guy has offered to help.<br>
> <br>m<br><br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael H=
> erman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com">http://Michael=
> Herman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTra=
> il.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h=
> ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps=
> .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org=
> </a><br>
> <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Harriso=
> n Owen <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:hhowen at verizon.net">hhowen at v=
> erizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
> =3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); p=
> adding-left: 1ex;">
> <div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
> al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Michael =96 Y=
> ou are a wonder! Thanks!! My techie days are through =96 if they ever were.=
> But maybe I know somebody at the LISTSERVE organizations. Can we get conta=
> ct info? If so, could you tell us how? I=92m thinking =96 supposing I knew =
> somebody at GWU, I think I would get further if I also had the IT contact t=
> here. So my friend (if I had one) could make the connection.</span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
> 25);">=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
> color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">ho </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
> =3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=A0</span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
> 25);">Harrison Owen</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
> ze: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">7808 River Falls Dr.</span></p><p class=
> =3D"MsoNormal">
> <span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Potomac, MD 20854=
> </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rg=
> b(31, 73, 125);">USA</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
> ize: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Phone 301-365-2093</span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
> 25);"><a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com" target=3D"_blank">www.opens=
> paceworld.com</a></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
> : 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com" targe=
> t=3D"_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)</span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Conso=
> las; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your optio=
> ns, view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu" =
> target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color: blue;">oslist at listserv.boisestate.e=
> du</span></a>:</span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
> 25);"><a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" targe=
> t=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color: blue;">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/ar=
> chives/oslist.html</span></a></span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
> 25);">=A0</span></p><div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-s=
> tyle: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color=
> -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b>=
> <span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> OSLIST [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at L=
> ISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D"_blank">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a=
>> ] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Herman<br>
> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"=
> mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D"_blank">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BO=
> ISESTATE.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> oslist archives future</span></p></div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"></p><div><div></div><d=
> iv class=3D"h5">well, having launched those two questions about archives an=
> d future conversation, i need to wade into the archive side of things.<br><=
> br>as it turns out, the link i sent earlier... <a href=3D"http://www.opensp=
> aceworld.org/oslist.log9904" target=3D"_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.or=
> g/oslist.log9904</a> does actually load up pretty nicely in a browser, when=
> it's loaded online (i tested it reading from my desktop, previously).=
> =A0 <br>
> <br>so anyone can take a look at this page and see what the archives would =
> look like IF we just uploaded our 150ish files to a folder somewhere.=A0 te=
> chies -- tell us please -- could such folder not have a simple search page =
> set up so that anyone could plug in what they wanted to search for and sear=
> ch just that folder, to return a list of any of the 150 files that made ref=
> erence to the search terms?=A0 <br>
> <br>IF we were able to turn all of these pages into pdf files, then when th=
> ey were opened, the search terms would be highlighted.=A0 this might make t=
> hings easier for scrolling through, or the search instructions could just i=
> nclude the suggestion to use your browser's "find in page" fu=
> nction to locate search terms in each page.=A0 <br>
> <br>main question, though... DO WE NEED TO DO MORE with the oslist archives=
> than simply make these 150 long pages available for searching?<br clear=3D=
> "all">=A0<br>does anybody out there go regularly or frequently to search th=
> e archives we have now???=A0 if so... can you tell us something about your =
> searching???<br>
> <br>thanks, m<br><br><br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associa=
> tes<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com" target=3D"_blank">http://Mi=
> chaelHerman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com" target=3D"_bla=
> nk">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com" target=3D"_blank">http://ManorNeighbo=
> rs.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org" target=3D"_bl=
> ank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpace=
> World.org" target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br>
> <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br></div></div>* * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a hr=
> ef=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D"_blank">OSLIST at LISTS=
> ERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubsc=
> ribe, change your options, view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at li=
> stserv.boisestate.edu" target=3D"_blank">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</a>=
> : <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target=3D=
> "_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn a=
> bout OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href=3D"http://www.openspacewo=
> rld.org/oslist" target=3D"_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a> =
> </div>
> </div>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> <a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D"_blank">OSLIST@=
> LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu" targ=
> et=3D"_blank">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:
> <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target=3D"_=
> blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
> ww.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></blockquote></div><br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --0015174c3fa844397904965db704--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:53:27 -0600
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --20cf300259181e627b04965dd20d
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal?
>
> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host and,
> failing that, fall back to this option?
>
> m
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider.
>> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free and
>> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like the
>> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that gives
>> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.
>>
>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides a
>> one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve
>> software which is widely used:
>>
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>>
>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching in
>> a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a
>> little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>>
>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization
>> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost
>> about $100 US a year.
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>>
>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june
>> of next year.
>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with
>> that)
>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x
>> 12 years)
>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser
>> application
>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft
>> listserv host org
>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help
>> with... now!
>> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's available
>> if/when we want to use it
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Harold Shinsato
>> harold at shinsato.com
>> http://shinsato.com
>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --20cf300259181e627b04965dd20d
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> this sounds great, harold.=A0 osi-us could get us into the free deal?=A0 <b=
> r><br>do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host =
> and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br><br>m<br><br><br>=A0<br>--<=
> br>
> <br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://Mi=
> chaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanPar=
> kTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbo=
> rs.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationC=
> orps.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld=
> .org</a><br><br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold =
> Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harol=
> d at shinsato.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
> tyle=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204=
> ); padding-left: 1ex;">
>
>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">
> Hi Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to
> consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start
> using the free and open source list serve software that runs and
> looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a
> generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to
> U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br>
> <br>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company
> provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which=
> is the
> List Serve software which is widely used:<br>
> <br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html" target=3D"_b=
> lank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br>
> <br>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and
> searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable
> now. It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help
> with that.<br>
> <br>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3)
> organization (which would make it free) going with this kind of
> solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br>
> <br>
> =A0=A0=A0 Harold<div class=3D"im"><br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later
> than june of next year.=A0 <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own
> with that)<br>
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12
> months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br>
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web
> browser application<br>
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another
> l-soft listserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone
> can help with... now!<br>
> 10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com" target=
> =3D"_blank">oslist at googlegroups.com</a>
> set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</blockquote=
>>
> <br>
> <br>
> </div><font color=3D"#888888"><div>-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">harold at shins=
> ato.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com=
> </a><br>
> twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" target=3D"_blank">@haj=
> ush</a></div>
> </font></div>
>
> </blockquote></div><br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --20cf300259181e627b04965dd20d--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:45:17 -0700
> From: Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
> http-equiv="Content-Type">
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
> Hi Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to
> consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start
> using the free and open source list serve software that runs and
> looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a
> generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to
> U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br>
> <br>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company
> provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the
> List Serve software which is widely used:<br>
> <br>
> <a href="http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br>
> <br>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and
> searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable
> now. It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help
> with that.<br>
> <br>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3)
> organization (which would make it free) going with this kind of
> solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br>
> <br>
> Harold<br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote
> cite="mid:AANLkTi=nsOQOFj5GEDsej30q1w9nm21mgjmNhY7YmwXD at mail.gmail.com"
> type="cite"><br>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later
> than june of next year. <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own
> with that)<br>
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12
> months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br>
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web
> browser application<br>
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another
> l-soft listserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone
> can help with... now!<br>
> 10. we already have <a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com">oslist at googlegroups.com</a>
> set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href="mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div>
> </body>
> </html>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:35:04 -0700
> From: Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
> http-equiv="Content-Type">
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
> Michael,<br>
> <br>
> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board
> would be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it.
> Hopefully you might still be willing to handle some of the admin
> stuff - I don't know who is doing what for the current OSList serve.
> But I think it does take a little attention to moderate new
> subscribers to avoid spammers - that would be true for a Google
> group too.<br>
> <br>
> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list
> serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system -
> it is best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple.
> I've done searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas
> about specific topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work
> with two different search places.<br>
> <br>
> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing
> Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And
> using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write
> - so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Harold<br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote
> cite="mid:AANLkTikQuKjhrzGzi6rt+iH3ibnn4-nM1AF5pW_o31RD at mail.gmail.com"
> type="cite">this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into
> the free deal? <br>
> <br>
> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv
> host and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br>
> <br>
> m<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> <br>
> Michael Herman<br>
> Michael Herman Associates<br>
> <br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://MichaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br>
> <br>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold
> Shinsato <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a>></span>
> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
> 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
> padding-left: 1ex;">
> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option
> to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed
> to start using the free and open source list serve software
> that runs and looks almost exactly like the current
> ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that
> gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br>
> <br>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting
> company provides a one click install for the "Mailman"
> program, which is the List Serve software which is widely
> used:<br>
> <br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html"
> target="_blank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br>
> <br>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing
> and searching in a similar way to how they are searchable
> and browsable now. It would take a little techie work - but
> I'd be happy to help with that.<br>
> <br>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3)
> organization (which would make it free) going with this kind
> of solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br>
> <br>
> Harold
> <div class="im"><br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote type="cite"><br>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form
> not later than june of next year. <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to
> googlegroups<br>
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're
> on our own with that)<br>
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files
> (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text
> editor<br>
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in
> a web browser application<br>
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going
> is another l-soft listserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is
> something anyone can help with... now!<br>
> 10. we already have <a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com" target="_blank">oslist at googlegroups.com</a>
> set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> </div>
> <font color="#888888">
> <div>-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="mailto:harold at shinsato.com" target="_blank">harold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://shinsato.com"
> target="_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
> href="http://twitter.com/hajush" target="_blank">@hajush</a></div>
> </font></div>
> </blockquote>
> </div>
> <br>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:</a>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>
> </blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href="mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div>
> </body>
> </html>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:33:33 -0500
> From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CB916D.1D659350
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Harold - will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this is a
> no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.
>
>
>
> ho
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> www.openspaceworld.com
>
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> <mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>
> <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harold
> Shinsato
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider.
> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free and
> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like the
> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that gives
> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.
>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides a
> one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve
> software which is widely used:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching in
> a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a
> little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which
> would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about
> $100 US a year.
>
> Harold
>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>
>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of
> next year.
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that)
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x
> 12 years)
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser
> application
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft
> listserv host org
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help
> with... now!
> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's available
> if/when we want to use it
>
>
>
> --
> Harold Shinsato
> harold at shinsato.com
> http://shinsato.com
> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>
> * * ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CB916D.1D659350
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> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta =
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> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
> lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harold – will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so =
> this is a no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure. =
> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>ho<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>www.openspaceworld.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To =
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu"><span =
> style=3D'color:blue'>oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</span></a>:<o:p></o:p=
>> </span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><span =
> style=3D'color:blue'>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<=
> /span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
> style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
> 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
> ext'>From:</span></b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
> ext'> OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of =
> </b>Harold Shinsato<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 =
> PM<br><b>To:</b> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
> oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
> Michael,<br><br>Thanks for all your research on this. There's another =
> option to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to =
> start using the free and open source list serve software that runs and =
> looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a =
> generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to U.S. =
> 501(c)(3) organizations.<br><br>It takes very little administration - as =
> the Web Hosting company provides a one click install for the =
> "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve software which is =
> widely used:<br><br><a =
> href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html">http://www.gnu.or=
> g/software/mailman/index.html</a><br><br>And there is even a path to =
> maintain the logs for browsing and searching in a similar way to how =
> they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a little techie =
> work - but I'd be happy to help with that.<br><br>Even if we didn't want =
> get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which would make it =
> free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about $100 US a =
> year.<br><br> Harold<br><br>On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, =
> Michael Herman wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>1. the =
> oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of =
> next year. <br>2. boise state is migrating their own lists to =
> googlegroups<br>3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're =
> on our own with that)<br>4. our archives will be delivered to us on a =
> single CD<br>5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files =
> (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br>6. these monthly files can be read =
> easily in any text editor<br>7. they can be read less easily when opened =
> directly in a web browser application<br>8. the BEST way to keep the =
> archives and the list going is another l-soft listserv host org<br>9. =
> finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help =
> with... now!<br>10. we already have <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com">oslist at googlegroups.com</a> set =
> up, so that's available if/when we want to use it<o:p></o:p></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>-- <br>Harold Shinsato<br><a =
> href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter: <a =
> href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:windowtext'>* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist =
> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CB916D.1D659350--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:49:18 -0800
> From: Chris Corrigan <chris at chriscorrigan.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --Apple-Mail-10--603254145
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=windows-1252
>
> I agree with you Harrison, and thanks to Michael for these many =
> dedicated years of looking out for our list and openspaceworld.org. =
> Harold, well done chiming in with a crisp solution. =20
>
> Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains a simple option?
>
> Chris
> ----
> Chris Corrigan
> chris at chriscorrigan.com
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
>
> On 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>
>> Harold =96 will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this =
> is a no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.
>> =20
>> ho
>> =20
>> Harrison Owen
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>> USA
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>> www.openspaceworld.com
>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of =
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>> =20
>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of =
> Harold Shinsato
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 PM
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide =
> and act
>> =20
>> Hi Michael,
>> =20
>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to =
> consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using =
> the free and open source list serve software that runs and looks almost =
> exactly like the current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting =
> company that gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) =
> organizations.
>> =20
>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company =
> provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the =
> List Serve software which is widely used:
>> =20
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>> =20
>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and =
> searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. =
> It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>> =20
>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization =
> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only =
> cost about $100 US a year.
>> =20
>> Harold
>> =20
>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>> =20
>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than =
> june of next year. =20
>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with =
> that)
>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 =
> months x 12 years)
>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser =
> application
>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another =
> l-soft listserv host org
>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can =
> help with... now!
>> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's =
> available if/when we want to use it
>> =20
>> =20
>> --=20
>> Harold Shinsato
>> harold at shinsato.com
>> http://shinsato.com
>> twitter: @hajush
>> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DOSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --Apple-Mail-10--603254145
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=windows-1252
>
> <html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://48/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
> break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
> after-white-space; ">I agree with you Harrison, and thanks to Michael =
> for these many dedicated years of looking out for our list and <a =
> href=3D"http://openspaceworld.org">openspaceworld.org</a>. Harold, =
> well done chiming in with a crisp solution. =
> <div><br></div><div>Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains =
> a simple option?</div><div><br></div><div>Chris<br><div>
> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
> color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
> font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
> letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
> auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
> widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
> style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
> Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
> font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
> orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
> widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
> break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
> after-white-space; ">----<br>Chris Corrigan<br><a =
> href=3D"mailto:chris at chriscorrigan.com">chris at chriscorrigan.com</a><br>htt=
> p://www.chriscorrigan.com<br><br></div></span></span>
> </div>
> <br><div><div>On 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:</div><br =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
> class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
> font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
> font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
> orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
> widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
> bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div =
> class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; "><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
> Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Harold =96 will the =
> OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this is a no-brainer so far =
> as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
> Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
> "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
> margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: =
> 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span =
> style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
> rgb(31, 73, 125); ">ho<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; =
> font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; =
> "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
> color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
> Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Harrison =
> Owen<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
> 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
> font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span =
> style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
> rgb(31, 73, 125); ">7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
> Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Potomac, MD =
> 20854<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
> margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: =
> 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span =
> style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
> rgb(31, 73, 125); ">USA<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
> 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; =
> font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; =
> "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
> color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Phone =
> 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
> margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: =
> 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span =
> style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
> rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com" =
> style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
> ">www.openspaceworld.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
> Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a =
> href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
> underline; ">www.ho-image.com</a><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>(Personal =
> Website)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
> margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: =
> 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span =
> style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, =
> 125); ">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the =
> archives of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; "><span style=3D"color: blue; =
> ">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</span></a>:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
> Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" =
> style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style=3D"color: =
> blue; =
> ">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></a><o:p></o:p=
>> </span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; =
> margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
> 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
> 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
> "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
> none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
> initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
> border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
> padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: =
> 0in; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: =
> 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
> Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
> font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; =
> ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
> sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>OSLIST =
> [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Harold =
> Shinsato<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, December 01, =
> 2010 1:45 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; =
> ">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: oslist will end soon -- =
> it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
> margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: =
> 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; =
> "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
> 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
> font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">Hi =
> Michael,<br><br>Thanks for all your research on this. There's another =
> option to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to =
> start using the free and open source list serve software that runs and =
> looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a =
> generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to U.S. =
> 501(c)(3) organizations.<br><br>It takes very little administration - as =
> the Web Hosting company provides a one click install for the "Mailman" =
> program, which is the List Serve software which is widely =
> used:<br><br><a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html" =
> style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
> ">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br><br>And there is =
> even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching in a similar =
> way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a little =
> techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.<br><br>Even if we =
> didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which would =
> make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about =
> $100 US a year.<br><br> Harold<br><br>On 12/1/10 10:47 =
> AM, Michael Herman wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
> margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: =
> 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><br>1. the =
> oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of =
> next year. <span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>2. =
> boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise =
> state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with =
> that)<br>4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. =
> they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x =
> 12 years)<br>6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text =
> editor<br>7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web =
> browser application<br>8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list =
> going is another l-soft listserv host org<br>9. finding another listserv =
> host organization is something anyone can help with... now!<br>10. we =
> already have<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; ">oslist at googlegroups.com</a><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>set up, so that's available =
> if/when we want to use it<o:p></o:p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
> 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; =
> font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; =
> ">--<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Harold =
> Shinsato<br><a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; ">harold at shinsato.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://shinsato.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
> underline; ">http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter:<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; ">@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
> margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
> serif; color: black; "><span style=3D"color: windowtext; ">* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" =
> style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
> ">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>-----------------------------=
> - To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives =
> of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; ">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" =
> style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
> ">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; =
> ">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div>* =
> * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; ">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>-----------------------------=
> - To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives =
> of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; ">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" =
> style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
> ">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" style=3D"color: blue; =
> text-decoration: underline; =
> ">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></div></span></blockquote></div>=
> <br></div></body></html>=
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --Apple-Mail-10--603254145--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:16:51 -0600
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --20cf30025918ef4dcb04965fd294
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's
> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and
> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a
> separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd
> have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best
> option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list.
> harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an
> excellent one.
>
> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old
> guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle
> of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope,
> repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution,
> we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the
> archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list.
>
> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help
> get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very
> technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list
> sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a
> possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support
> that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.
>
> m
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board would be
>> happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. Hopefully you
>> might still be willing to handle some of the admin stuff - I don't know who
>> is doing what for the current OSList serve. But I think it does take a
>> little attention to moderate new subscribers to avoid spammers - that would
>> be true for a Google group too.
>>
>> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list serve
>> style service - and to port the archives to the new system - it is best if
>> all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. I've done searches on
>> the archives in the past trying to get ideas about specific topics. It might
>> get tricky for folks to have to work with two different search places.
>>
>> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing Google
>> ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And using Google
>> gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write - so you lose quite
>> a few rights with a free Google service.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Harold
>>
>>
>> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal?
>>
>> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host and,
>> failing that, fall back to this option?
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>>
>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>> http://RonanParkTrail.com
>> http://ManorNeighbors.com
>> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>
>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider.
>>> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free and
>>> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like the
>>> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that gives
>>> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.
>>>
>>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides
>>> a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve
>>> software which is widely used:
>>>
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>>>
>>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching
>>> in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would take
>>> a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>>>
>>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization
>>> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost
>>> about $100 US a year.
>>>
>>> Harold
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june
>>> of next year.
>>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
>>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with
>>> that)
>>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
>>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x
>>> 12 years)
>>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
>>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser
>>> application
>>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft
>>> listserv host org
>>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help
>>> with... now!
>>> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's available
>>> if/when we want to use it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Harold Shinsato
>>> harold at shinsato.com
>>> http://shinsato.com
>>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>>
>>
>> * * ==========================================================
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Harold Shinsato
>> harold at shinsato.com
>> http://shinsato.com
>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --20cf30025918ef4dcb04965fd294
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's=
> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and a=
> d-free(!) conversation.=A0 the archive part is included, but only as a sepa=
> rate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive.=A0 we=
> 9;d have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby.=A0 so the=
> best option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to=
> host our list.=A0 harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choi=
> ce -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.<br>
> <br>if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing.=A0 =
> the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be =
> in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envel=
> ope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys.=A0 if we go with harold's=
> solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things t=
> o make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new lis=
> t.<br>
> <br>as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad =
> to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything ve=
> ry technical.=A0 and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into=
> the list sheparding tasks (small as they might be).=A0 i have one query ou=
> t to a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to=
> support that connection.=A0 otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br=
>>
> <br>m<br><br><br><br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>M=
> ichael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com">http:/=
> /MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://Rona=
> nParkTrail.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h=
> ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps=
> .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org=
> </a><br>
> <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold S=
> hinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold=
> @shinsato.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
> yle=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204)=
> ; padding-left: 1ex;">
>
>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">
> Michael,<br>
> <br>
> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board
> would be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it.
> Hopefully you might still be willing to handle some of the admin
> stuff - I don't know who is doing what for the current OSList serve=
> .
> But I think it does take a little attention to moderate new
> subscribers to avoid spammers - that would be true for a Google
> group too.<br>
> <br>
> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list
> serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system -
> it is best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple.
> I've done searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas
> about specific topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work
> with two different search places.<br>
> <br>
> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing
> Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And
> using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write
> - so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.<br>
> <br>
> =A0=A0=A0 Cheers,<br>
> =A0=A0=A0 Harold<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> </div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"=
>> this sounds great, harold.=A0 osi-us could get us into
> the free deal?=A0 <br>
> <br>
> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv
> host and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br>
> <br>
> m<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> =A0<br>
> --<br>
> <br>
> Michael Herman<br>
> Michael Herman Associates<br>
> <br>
> <a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com" target=3D"_blank">http://Michael=
> Herman.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com" target=3D"_blank">http://RonanP=
> arkTrail.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com" target=3D"_blank">http://ManorN=
> eighbors.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org" target=3D"_blank">htt=
> p://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSp=
> aceWorld.org</a><br>
> <br>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold
> Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.co=
> m" target=3D"_blank">harold at shinsato.com</a>></span>
> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8e=
> x; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> Hi Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another optio=
> n
> to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed
> to start using the free and open source list serve software
> that runs and looks almost exactly like the current
> ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that
> gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.<br=
>>
> <br>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting
> company provides a one click install for the "Mailman"=
> ;
> program, which is the List Serve software which is widely
> used:<br>
> <br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html" targ=
> et=3D"_blank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br>
> <br>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing
> and searching in a similar way to how they are searchable
> and browsable now. It would take a little techie work - but
> I'd be happy to help with that.<br>
> <br>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3)
> organization (which would make it free) going with this kind
> of solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br>
> <br>
> =A0=A0=A0 Harold
> <div><br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form
> not later than june of next year.=A0 <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to
> googlegroups<br>
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're
> on our own with that)<br>
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files
> (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text
> editor<br>
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in
> a web browser application<br>
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going
> is another l-soft listserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is
> something anyone can help with... now!<br>
> 10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.c=
> om" target=3D"_blank">oslist at googlegroups.com</a>
> set up, so that's available if/when we want to use it</=
> blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> </div>
> <font color=3D"#888888">
> <div>-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">ha=
> rold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">http://sh=
> insato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" target=3D"_b=
> lank">@hajush</a></div>
> </font></div>
> </blockquote>
> </div>
> <br></div></div>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> <a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D"_blank">O=
> SLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu=
> :" target=3D"_blank">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:</a>
> <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" targe=
> t=3D"_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target=3D"_blank">ht=
> tp://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>
> </blockquote><div class=3D"im">
> <br>
> <br>
> <div>-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">harold at shins=
> ato.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com=
> </a><br>
> twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" target=3D"_blank">@haj=
> ush</a></div>
> </div></div>
>
> </blockquote></div><br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --20cf30025918ef4dcb04965fd294--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:20:37 +0000
> From: Anne A Hiha <anne_a_hiha at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --_1cdda647-0f4e-4f14-9f09-e90ff9663d3c_
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Michael thank you for holding the space for the continuation of that type o=
> f space.
>
> Thank you too to Harold and others who have made it feel as though anything=
> and everything is possible.
>
> I watch for further developments with trust and anticipation.
>
> Regards
>
> Anne
>
> Date: Wed=2C 1 Dec 2010 11:47:39 -0600
> From: michael at michaelherman.com
> Subject: [OSLIST] oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate=2C decide=
> and act
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>
> gather round oslisters=2C and bring your keyboard! =20
>
> i'm just off the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their se=
> rvers.
>
> here is what we know...
>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june o=
> f next year. =20
>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that=
> )
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly=2C 12 months =
> x 12 years)
>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser appli=
> cation
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft l=
> istserv host org
>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help =
> with... now!
> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up=2C so that's available i=
> f/when we want to use it
>
>
> that said...
>
> i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two pieces=2C past and futur=
> e=2C an archive and an ongoing conversation. if we can find another listse=
> rv customer to adopt us=2C that solves both pieces. =20
>
>
> if not=2C then we need to talk here about options for each piece:
>
> 1. what sort of access is required for the archives? is it enough to make =
> them available online some place=2C as a giant set of text files (zipped up=
> =2C they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable online or jus=
> t downloadable for research mining purposes? what does anyone think about =
> raising community money year after year to sustain them in their current br=
> owsable form? for the techies in our midst... if you want to think of crea=
> tive=2C=20
> non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it can stay
> permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching=2C i.e.=20
> convert archive text files to something browsable=2C you can download a=20
> sample monthly log file here...=20
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904 =20
>
> 2. as for the ongoing conversation=2C the best solution might be a googleg=
> roup. yahoogroup might be a close second. what other ways are there out t=
> here on the web that might support our ongoing community conversation? sho=
> uld we leave threaded email altogether? should we leave archiving aside an=
> d all join facebook? (yikes!) should we learn to converse in 140-characte=
> r tweets? migrate to a forum at the ning site? should we turn our convesa=
> tions into a os-pedia using the same software as wikipedia (probably better=
> for organizing information than for actual convesation). where should we =
> take the oslist heart of our many global conversations?
>
>
> while we're having a chat about these two things=2C anyone and everyone is =
> invited to check this list... http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.asp =
> ...to see if you know any of these organizations well enough that you could=
> approach them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list into their =
> system. if you have an org to approach=2C then i can get you the technical=
> details they'll want to know about our list=2C so they know what they'd be=
> taking on. you would just need to make the IT contact and ask the questio=
> n. finding another listserv customer to adopt us is the FIRST BEST solutio=
> n. we might buy the service or license the software ourselves=2C but as no=
> ted in previous emails=2C that is not cheap and must be paid annually.
>
>
> we have until june=2C but we've been strongly advised to do this as soon as=
> possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time=2C out of our con=
> trol=2C and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for som=
> e time=2C with forwarding pointers from the old site. but those pointers =
> will disappear in june=2C too.
>
>
> so where should we go from here? and who knows any of those listserv custo=
> mers? =20
>
> m
> =20
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
>
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
>
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe=2C unsubscribe=2C change your options=2C
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist =
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --_1cdda647-0f4e-4f14-9f09-e90ff9663d3c_
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <html>
> <head>
> <style><!--
> .hmmessage P
> {
> margin:0px=3B
> padding:0px
> }
> body.hmmessage
> {
> font-size: 10pt=3B
> font-family:Tahoma
> }
> --></style>
> </head>
> <body class=3D'hmmessage'>
> Michael thank you for holding the space for the continuation of that type o=
> f space.<br><br>Thank you too to Harold and others who have made it feel as=
> though anything and everything is possible.<br><br>I watch for further dev=
> elopments with trust and anticipation.<br><br>Regards<br><br>Anne<br><br><h=
> r id=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Wed=2C 1 Dec 2010 11:47:39 -0600<br>From: micha=
> el at michaelherman.com<br>Subject: [OSLIST] oslist will end soon -- it's time=
> to deliberate=2C decide and act<br>To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br><=
> br>gather round oslisters=2C and bring your keyboard! =3B <br><br>i'm j=
> ust off the phone with boise state about the end of oslist on their servers=
> .<br><br>here is what we know...<br><br>1. the oslist will cease to exist i=
> n its current form not later than june of next year. =3B <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise sta=
> te is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with that)<br>4. our =
> archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. they will be in the f=
> orm of 150 monthly log files (roughly=2C 12 months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor<br>7. they can=
> be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser application<br>8=
> . the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft li=
> stserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can help =
> with... now!<br>10. we already have <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.c=
> om">oslist at googlegroups.com</a> set up=2C so that's available if/when we wa=
> nt to use it<br>
> <br>that said...<br><br>i propose again that we think of the OSLIST in two =
> pieces=2C past and future=2C an archive and an ongoing conversation. =
> =3B if we can find another listserv customer to adopt us=2C that solves bot=
> h pieces. =3B <br>
> <br>if not=2C then we need to talk here about options for each piece:<br><b=
> r>1. what sort of access is required for the archives? =3B is it enough=
> to make them available online some place=2C as a giant set of text files (=
> zipped up=2C they total 75MB)? do they need to be browsable/searchable onli=
> ne or just downloadable for research mining purposes? =3B what does any=
> one think about raising community money year after year to sustain them in =
> their current browsable form? =3B for the techies in our midst... if yo=
> u want to think of creative=2C=20
> non-listserv solutions for hosting the archive in a way that it can stay
> permanently (whatever that means) accessible for searching=2C i.e.=20
> convert archive text files to something browsable=2C you can download a=20
> sample monthly log file here...=20
> <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904" target=3D"_blank">=
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist.log9904</a> =3B <br><br>2. =3B=
> as for the ongoing conversation=2C the best solution might be a googlegrou=
> p. =3B yahoogroup might be a close second. =3B what other ways are =
> there out there on the web that might support our ongoing community convers=
> ation? =3B should we leave threaded email altogether? =3B should we=
> leave archiving aside and all join facebook? =3B (yikes!) =3B shou=
> ld we learn to converse in 140-character tweets? =3B migrate to a forum=
> at the ning site? =3B should we turn our convesations into a os-pedia =
> using the same software as wikipedia (probably better for organizing inform=
> ation than for actual convesation). =3B where should we take the oslist=
> heart of our many global conversations?<br>
> <br>while we're having a chat about these two things=2C anyone and everyone=
> is invited to check this list... <a href=3D"http://www.lsoft.com/customers=
> /customers.asp" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lsoft.com/customers/customers.=
> asp</a> ...to see if you know any of these organizations well enough that y=
> ou could approach them yourself to inquire if they would adopt our list int=
> o their system. =3B if you have an org to approach=2C then i can get yo=
> u the technical details they'll want to know about our list=2C so they know=
> what they'd be taking on. =3B you would just need to make the IT conta=
> ct and ask the question. =3B finding another listserv customer to adopt=
> us is the FIRST BEST solution. =3B we might buy the service or license=
> the software ourselves=2C but as noted in previous emails=2C that is not c=
> heap and must be paid annually.<br>
> <br>we have until june=2C but we've been strongly advised to do this as soo=
> n as possible... cuz migration and set-up will take some time=2C out of our=
> control=2C and it would be good to be up and running in a new location for=
> some time=2C with forwarding pointers from the old site. =3B =3B b=
> ut those pointers will disappear in june=2C too.<br>
> <br>so where should we go from here? =3B and who knows any of those lis=
> tserv customers? =3B <br><br>m<br><br clear=3D"all"> =3B<br>--<br><=
> br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://Mic=
> haelHerman.com" target=3D"_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com" target=3D"_blank">http://RonanParkTra=
> il.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com" target=3D"_blank">http:=
> //ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org"=
> target=3D"_blank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSpaceWor=
> ld.org</a><br><br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe=2C unsubscribe=2C change your options=2C
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist </body>
> </html>=
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --_1cdda647-0f4e-4f14-9f09-e90ff9663d3c_--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:21:41 +0100
> From: christine koehler <chris.alice.koehler at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: open space and heros
>
> --0016363b9d3a2f9d5a04965fe4ae
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thank you all for your stories. I love them !
> I am reading them and will answer later.
> Christine
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --0016363b9d3a2f9d5a04965fe4ae
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> <br>Thank you all for your stories. I love them ! <br>I am reading them and will answer later.<br>Christine <br>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --0016363b9d3a2f9d5a04965fe4ae--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:43:18 -0500
> From: "sdaigle4 at comcast.net" <sdaigle4 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --Motorola-A-Mail-TD_2NWNMd8kY49sK
> Content-Type: text/plain; Format="Flowed"; DelSp="Yes"; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Michael thank you so much for all you have done and are doing. Because of
> you so many of us had a historical treasure trove of virtual conversations
> with questions, dialogues and debates that are as relevant today as they
> were when they were first posted. And Harold thank you so much for all this
> technical behind the scenes expertise you are providing always looking for
> solutions that reflect the self-organizing spirit of our collaborative
> comminity.
>
> Suzanne an appreciative beneficiary of all this hard work.
>
> Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Sent: Thu, Jan 1, 1970 00:00:00 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's
> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and
> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a
> separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd
> have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best
> option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list.
> harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an
> excellent one.
>
> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old
> guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle
> of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope,
> repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution,
> we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the
> archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list.
>
> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help
> get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very
> technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list
> sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a
> possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support
> that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.
>
> m
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board would be
>> happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. Hopefully you
>> might still be willing to handle some of the admin stuff - I don't know
> who
>> is doing what for the current OSList serve. But I think it does take a
>> little attention to moderate new subscribers to avoid spammers - that
> would
>> be true for a Google group too.
>>
>> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list serve
>> style service - and to port the archives to the new system - it is best if
>> all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. I've done searches
> on
>> the archives in the past trying to get ideas about specific topics. It
> might
>> get tricky for folks to have to work with two different search places.
>>
>> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing Google
>> ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And using Google
>> gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write - so you lose
> quite
>> a few rights with a free Google service.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Harold
>>
>>
>> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal?
>>
>> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host and,
>> failing that, fall back to this option?
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>>
>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>> http://RonanParkTrail.com
>> http://ManorNeighbors.com
>> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>
>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato
> <harold at shinsato.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to consider.
>>> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free
> and
>>> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like
> the
>>> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that
> gives
>>> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.
>>>
>>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company provides
>>> a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve
>>> software which is widely used:
>>>
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>>>
>>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching
>>> in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would
> take
>>> a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>>>
>>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization
>>> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only
> cost
>>> about $100 US a year.
>>>
>>> Harold
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june
>>> of next year.
>>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
>>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with
>>> that)
>>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
>>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months
> x
>>> 12 years)
>>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
>>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser
>>> application
>>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another l-soft
>>> listserv host org
>>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can
> help
>>> with... now!
>>> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's available
>>> if/when we want to use it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Harold Shinsato
>>> harold at shinsato.com
>>> http://shinsato.com
>>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>>
>>
>> * * ==========================================================
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Harold Shinsato
>> harold at shinsato.com
>> http://shinsato.com
>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:53:10 +0100
> From: Thomas Herrmann <thomas at openspaceconsulting.com>
> Subject: SV: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CB91AA.877E2490
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Sounds wonderful simple solution, to me =96 also a non-techie guy
>
> Big big thanks for looking after this challenging situation for us, =
> Michael
> and others!=20
>
> Hugs
>
> Thomas Herrmann
>
> =20
>
> Fr=E5n: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] F=F6r Chris =
> Corrigan
> Skickat: den 1 december 2010 21:49
> Till: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> =C4mne: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act
>
> =20
>
> I agree with you Harrison, and thanks to Michael for these many =
> dedicated
> years of looking out for our list and openspaceworld.org. Harold, well =
> done
> chiming in with a crisp solution. =20
>
> =20
>
> Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains a simple option?
>
> =20
>
> Chris
>
> ----
> Chris Corrigan
> chris at chriscorrigan.com
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
> =20
>
> On 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Harold =96 will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so this is =
> a
> no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.
>
> =20
>
> ho
>
> =20
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> www.openspaceworld.com
>
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> =20
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harold
> Shinsato
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:45 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act
>
> =20
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to =
> consider.
> The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using the free =
> and
> open source list serve software that runs and looks almost exactly like =
> the
> current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that =
> gives
> out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) organizations.
>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company =
> provides a
> one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve
> software which is widely used:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and searching =
> in
> a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. It would =
> take a
> little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization =
> (which
> would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only cost =
> about
> $100 US a year.
>
> Harold
>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>
>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than =
> june of
> next year. =20
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with =
> that)
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months =
> x
> 12 years)
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web browser
> application
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another =
> l-soft
> listserv host org
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone can =
> help
> with... now!
> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's available
> if/when we want to use it
>
> =20
>
> --=20
> Harold Shinsato
> harold at shinsato.com
> http://shinsato.com
> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>=20
>
> * *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DOSLIST at LISTSERV.BO
> ISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe,
> change your options, view the archives of =
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To =
> subscribe,
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> =20
>
> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To =
> subscribe,
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20
>
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
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> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Sounds wonderful simple solution, to me – also a non-techie =
> guy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Big big thanks for looking after this challenging situation for us, =
> Michael and others! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Hugs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Thomas Herrmann<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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> n></b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSLIST =
> [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b>F=F6r </b>Chris =
> Corrigan<br><b>Skickat:</b> den 1 december 2010 21:49<br><b>Till:</b> =
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br><b>=C4mne:</b> Re: oslist will end =
> soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I agree with =
> you Harrison, and thanks to Michael for these many dedicated years of =
> looking out for our list and <a =
> href=3D"http://openspaceworld.org">openspaceworld.org</a>. Harold, =
> well done chiming in with a crisp solution. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>Can we go the OSI route and see if it remains a simple =
> option?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span =
> style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
> k'>----<br>Chris Corrigan<br><a =
> href=3D"mailto:chris at chriscorrigan.com">chris at chriscorrigan.com</a><br>ht=
> tp://www.chriscorrigan.com<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
> 2010-12-01, at 12:33 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harold – will the OSI/US Listserve handle our archives? If so =
> this is a no-brainer so far as I can see. Go-OSI for sure.</span><span =
> lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>ho</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Harrison Owen</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>7808 River Falls Dr.</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Potomac, MD 20854</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>USA</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Phone 301-365-2093</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span><=
> span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>(Personal =
> Website)</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To =
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate=
> .edu</a>:</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://lists=
> erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
> style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
> 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
> </b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span=
>> </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>OSLIST =
> [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></b>Harold =
> Shinsato<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, December 01, 2010 =
> 1:45 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Re: oslist will end soon -- =
> it's time to deliberate, decide and act</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi =
> Michael,<br><br>Thanks for all your research on this. There's another =
> option to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to =
> start using the free and open source list serve software that runs and =
> looks almost exactly like the current ListServe for free using a =
> generous web hosting company that gives out web host services to U.S. =
> 501(c)(3) organizations.<br><br>It takes very little administration - as =
> the Web Hosting company provides a one click install for the =
> "Mailman" program, which is the List Serve software which is =
> widely used:<br><br><a =
> href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html">http://www.gnu.or=
> g/software/mailman/index.html</a><br><br>And there is even a path to =
> maintain the logs for browsing and searching in a similar way to how =
> they are searchable and browsable now. It would take a little techie =
> work - but I'd be happy to help with that.<br><br>Even if we didn't want =
> get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization (which would make it =
> free) going with this kind of solution would only cost about $100 US a =
> year.<br><br> Harold<br><br>On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, =
> Michael Herman wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'><br>1. the =
> oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than june of =
> next year. <span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br>2. =
> boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups<br>3. boise =
> state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own with =
> that)<br>4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD<br>5. =
> they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 months x =
> 12 years)<br>6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text =
> editor<br>7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web =
> browser application<br>8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list =
> going is another l-soft listserv host org<br>9. finding another listserv =
> host organization is something anyone can help with... now!<br>10. we =
> already have<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com">oslist at googlegroups.com</a><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>set up, so that's available =
> if/when we want to use it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>--<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br>Harold Shinsato<br><a =
> href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter:<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
>> </div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>------------------------------=
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives =
> of<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate=
> .edu</a>:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://lists=
> erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.o=
> rg/oslist</a><span =
> style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>------------------------------=
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives =
> of<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate=
> .edu</a>:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://lists=
> erv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<span =
> class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.o=
> rg/oslist</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>* * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CB91AA.877E2490--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:03:59 -0800
> From: Chris Corrigan <chris at chriscorrigan.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --Apple-Mail-14--598772814
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=us-ascii
>
> That makes sense...
>
> So as I understand it plan A is to have someone associated with an =
> institution tat runs listservs (probably a university) agree to take on =
> the hosting that Boise has done. If that works out, it's an easy matter =
> to port all of the stuff over.
>
> PLan B is Harold's option.
>
> Thumbs up to that.
>
> I'm not associated with a university, but will put out the call on my =
> network.
>
> Chris
> ----
> Chris Corrigan
> chris at chriscorrigan.com
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
>
> On 2010-12-01, at 1:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
>
>> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option =
> he's proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, =
> cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, =
> but only as a separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old =
> archive. we'd have an old archive and then start growing a new one, =
> nearby. so the best option is still to find another "listserv" =
> user/customer to host our list. harold's option, as he's noted, is a =
> second choice -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.
>> =20
>> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the =
> old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in =
> teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the =
> envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with =
> harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie =
> things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to =
> the new list.
>> =20
>> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to =
> help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very =
> technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the =
> list sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to =
> a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to =
> support that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.
>> =20
>> m
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> --
>> =20
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>> =20
>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>> http://RonanParkTrail.com
>> http://ManorNeighbors.com
>> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>> =20
>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>> =20
>> =20
>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com> =
> wrote:
>> Michael,
>> =20
>> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board would =
> be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it. Hopefully =
> you might still be willing to handle some of the admin stuff - I don't =
> know who is doing what for the current OSList serve. But I think it does =
> take a little attention to moderate new subscribers to avoid spammers - =
> that would be true for a Google group too.
>> =20
>> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list =
> serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system - it is =
> best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple. I've done =
> searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas about specific =
> topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work with two different =
> search places.
>> =20
>> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing =
> Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And =
> using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write - =
> so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.
>> =20
>> Cheers,
>> Harold
>> =20
>> =20
>> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>> this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into the free deal? =20=
>
>>> =20
>>> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv host =
> and, failing that, fall back to this option?
>>> =20
>>> m
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> --
>>> =20
>>> Michael Herman
>>> Michael Herman Associates
>>> =20
>>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>>> http://RonanParkTrail.com
>>> http://ManorNeighbors.com
>>> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
>>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>> =20
>>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold Shinsato =
> <harold at shinsato.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Michael,
>>> =20
>>> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option to =
> consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed to start using =
> the free and open source list serve software that runs and looks almost =
> exactly like the current ListServe for free using a generous web hosting =
> company that gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) =
> organizations.
>>> =20
>>> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting company =
> provides a one click install for the "Mailman" program, which is the =
> List Serve software which is widely used:
>>> =20
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
>>> =20
>>> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing and =
> searching in a similar way to how they are searchable and browsable now. =
> It would take a little techie work - but I'd be happy to help with that.
>>> =20
>>> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3) organization =
> (which would make it free) going with this kind of solution would only =
> cost about $100 US a year.
>>> =20
>>> Harold
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form not later than =
> june of next year. =20
>>>> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to googlegroups
>>>> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're on our own =
> with that)
>>>> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single CD
>>>> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files (roughly, 12 =
> months x 12 years)
>>>> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text editor
>>>> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in a web =
> browser application
>>>> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going is another =
> l-soft listserv host org
>>>> 9. finding another listserv host organization is something anyone =
> can help with... now!
>>>> 10. we already have oslist at googlegroups.com set up, so that's =
> available if/when we want to use it
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> --=20
>>> Harold Shinsato
>>> harold at shinsato.com
>>> http://shinsato.com
>>> twitter: @hajush
>>> =20
>>> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> =20
>> =20
>> --=20
>> Harold Shinsato
>> harold at shinsato.com
>> http://shinsato.com
>> twitter: @hajush
>> =20
>> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --Apple-Mail-14--598772814
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=us-ascii
>
> <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
> -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">That =
> makes sense...<div><br></div><div>So as I understand it plan A is to =
> have someone associated with an institution tat runs listservs (probably =
> a university) agree to take on the hosting that Boise has done. If =
> that works out, it's an easy matter to port all of the stuff =
> over.</div><div><br></div><div>PLan B is Harold's =
> option.</div><div><br></div><div>Thumbs up to =
> that.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not associated with a university, but =
> will put out the call on my =
> network.</div><div><br></div><div>Chris<br><div>
> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
> color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
> font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
> letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
> auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
> widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
> style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
> Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
> font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
> orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
> widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
> -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
> break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
> after-white-space; ">----<br>Chris Corrigan<br><a =
> href=3D"mailto:chris at chriscorrigan.com">chris at chriscorrigan.com</a><br>htt=
> p://www.chriscorrigan.com<br><br></div></span></span>
> </div>
> <br><div><div>On 2010-12-01, at 1:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:</div><br =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">looking =
> back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's =
> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and =
> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as =
> a separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old =
> archive. we'd have an old archive and then start growing a new =
> one, nearby. so the best option is still to find another =
> "listserv" user/customer to host our list. harold's option, as =
> he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.<br>
> <br>if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much =
> nothing. the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or =
> maybe i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like =
> opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if =
> we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do =
> some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, =
> i think) to the new list.<br>
> <br>as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad =
> to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything =
> very technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step =
> into the list sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have =
> one query out to a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i =
> will stay on to support that connection. otherwise, i hope others =
> will take this on.<br>
> <br>m<br><br><br><br><br clear=3D"all"> <br>--<br><br>Michael =
> Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a =
> href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com/">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com/">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com/">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a=
> =
> href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org/">http://ChicagoConservationCo=
> rps.org</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org/">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br>
> <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:35 PM, =
> Harold Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
> href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a>></span> =
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
> 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
>
>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">
> Michael,<br>
> <br>
> This is just me talking - but I'm fairly certain that the board
> would be happy to support this for free if the community wanted it.
> Hopefully you might still be willing to handle some of the admin
> stuff - I don't know who is doing what for the current OSList serve.
> But I think it does take a little attention to moderate new
> subscribers to avoid spammers - that would be true for a Google
> group too.<br>
> <br>
> I definitely agree with you it would be best to move to another list
> serve style service - and to port the archives to the new system -
> it is best if all the archives would be in one place - not multiple.
> I've done searches on the archives in the past trying to get ideas
> about specific topics. It might get tricky for folks to have to work
> with two different search places.<br>
> <br>
> Even though Google groups are attractive - it would feel odd seeing
> Google ads at the bottom of all our OSList emails in the future. And
> using Google gives them a non-expiring license to anything you write
> - so you lose quite a few rights with a free Google service.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Harold<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 11:53 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> </div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div></div><div =
> class=3D"h5">this sounds great, harold. osi-us could get us into
> the free deal? <br>
> <br>
> do you agree that best option is to migrate to another listserv
> host and, failing that, fall back to this option?<br>
> <br>
> m<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> <br>
> Michael Herman<br>
> Michael Herman Associates<br>
> <br>
> <a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br>
> <br>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Harold
> Shinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
> href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">harold at shinsato.com</a>></span>
> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
> 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> Hi Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for all your research on this. There's another option
> to consider. The Open Space Institute for the US has managed
> to start using the free and open source list serve software
> that runs and looks almost exactly like the current
> ListServe for free using a generous web hosting company that
> gives out web host services to U.S. 501(c)(3) =
> organizations.<br>
> <br>
> It takes very little administration - as the Web Hosting
> company provides a one click install for the "Mailman"
> program, which is the List Serve software which is widely
> used:<br>
> <br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html</a><br>
> <br>
> And there is even a path to maintain the logs for browsing
> and searching in a similar way to how they are searchable
> and browsable now. It would take a little techie work - but
> I'd be happy to help with that.<br>
> <br>
> Even if we didn't want get help from a current 501(c)(3)
> organization (which would make it free) going with this kind
> of solution would only cost about $100 US a year.<br>
> <br>
> Harold
> <div><br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 10:47 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>
> 1. the oslist will cease to exist in its current form
> not later than june of next year. <br>
> 2. boise state is migrating their own lists to
> googlegroups<br>
> 3. boise state is NOT migrating any archives (so we're
> on our own with that)<br>
> 4. our archives will be delivered to us on a single =
> CD<br>
> 5. they will be in the form of 150 monthly log files
> (roughly, 12 months x 12 years)<br>
> 6. these monthly files can be read easily in any text
> editor<br>
> 7. they can be read less easily when opened directly in
> a web browser application<br>
> 8. the BEST way to keep the archives and the list going
> is another l-soft listserv host org<br>
> 9. finding another listserv host organization is
> something anyone can help with... now!<br>
> 10. we already have <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at googlegroups.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">oslist at googlegroups.com</a>
> set up, so that's available if/when we want to use =
> it</blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> </div>
> <font color=3D"#888888">
> <div>-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">harold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" =
> target=3D"_blank">@hajush</a></div>
> </font></div>
> </blockquote>
> </div>
> <br></div></div>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> <a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" =
> target=3D"_blank">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:" =
> target=3D"_blank">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:</a>
> <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>
> </blockquote><div class=3D"im">
> <br>
> <br>
> <div>-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">harold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com/" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" =
> target=3D"_blank">@hajush</a></div>
> </div></div>
>
> </blockquote></div><br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> <a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.=
> EDU</a>
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of <a =
> href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate.=
> edu</a>:
> <a =
> href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listse=
> rv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> <a =
> href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.or=
> g/oslist</a>
> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --Apple-Mail-14--598772814--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:50:09 -0700
> From: Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
> http-equiv="Content-Type">
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
> Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our
> archives as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be
> pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The
> advantage is that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer base,
> and we would have full control over the webhosting - so it is less
> likely we would have to face this issue again of worrying about
> being homeless.<br>
> <br>
> For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port.
> We'd just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to
> moderate the list membership. I don't know of any email list
> software that can protect you completely from trolls and spammers
> without a human being involved. If there are others willing to help
> with that task - it would be straightforward to explain how to do
> that - even if they're not technically oriented.<br>
> <br>
> Harold<br>
> <br>
> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people
> have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in
> testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link
> to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting
> process and host the results so folks could compare. As convenient
> as it might be just to go from ListServe at Boise to some other
> benefactor, it's not clear to me that's necessarily the best option.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote
> cite="mid:AANLkTimEFaNjfHACYHS9501dO0-5MvrHMWKObnOH948n at mail.gmail.com"
> type="cite">looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems
> that the option he's proposing is one way to go forward with a
> new, manageable, cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation. the
> archive part is included, but only as a separate part, meaning the
> new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd have an old archive
> and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best option is
> still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list.
> harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say
> it's an excellent one.<br>
> <br>
> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing.
> the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe
> i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like
> opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if
> we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to
> do some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand
> beside, i think) to the new list.<br>
> <br>
> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad
> to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do
> anything very technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have
> others step into the list sheparding tasks (small as they might
> be). i have one query out to a possible host, and if that host
> materializes, then i will stay on to support that connection.
> otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br>
> <br>
> m<br>
> </blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href="mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
> twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div>
> </body>
> </html>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:03:57 -0600
> From: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> --001636831b928a4b1004966228bc
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> oh, okay, harold. that's fine. i thought your previous message said
> listserv to listserv was still the better option. i'm all for dumping it
> and going open source. as an ordinary participant in this world, simply
> posting the 150 monthly logs with and index/search page would be enough.
>
> so it seems the best way to go is the mailman route. now i also remember
> seeing (and trading some emails with) a guy named anthony thompson, who's
> posted steps for convernting listserv to mailman. he might be a resource
> for you to tap. he was very willing to help and i don't recall there was
> any huge cost associated with that help.
>
> as for getting the log files, the total package is 277MB (as of this
> morning) and 75MB if it's all zipped. logs go back monthly to 1999. it'll
> have to come by pony express on a CD. right now, i have only the one
> month's file, link posted in my earlier message. can you do what you need
> to with that one, for testing? or with several copies of it? if i get bsu
> to send a dump of the thing now, i suppose i could get them to send the rest
> later. can you do this migration in batches like that? anyway, tell me
> what you think works best and i'll do it.
>
> m
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our archives as
>> seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be pretty similar to a
>> straight ListServe to ListServe port. The advantage is that MailMan is free,
>> has a strong user/developer base, and we would have full control over the
>> webhosting - so it is less likely we would have to face this issue again of
>> worrying about being homeless.
>>
>> For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port. We'd
>> just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to moderate the
>> list membership. I don't know of any email list software that can protect
>> you completely from trolls and spammers without a human being involved. If
>> there are others willing to help with that task - it would be
>> straightforward to explain how to do that - even if they're not technically
>> oriented.
>>
>> Harold
>>
>> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people have
>> posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in testing the
>> porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link to the zip file of
>> the archive files I could test the porting process and host the results so
>> folks could compare. As convenient as it might be just to go from ListServe
>> at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not clear to me that's necessarily
>> the best option.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
>>
>> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's
>> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and
>> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a
>> separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd
>> have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the best
>> option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our list.
>> harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an
>> excellent one.
>>
>> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old
>> guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle
>> of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope,
>> repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution,
>> we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the
>> archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list.
>>
>> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help
>> get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very
>> technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list
>> sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a
>> possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support
>> that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Harold Shinsato
>> harold at shinsato.com
>> http://shinsato.com
>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --001636831b928a4b1004966228bc
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> oh, okay, harold.=A0 that's fine.=A0 i thought your previous message sa=
> id listserv to listserv was still the better option.=A0 i'm all for dum=
> ping it and going open source.=A0 as an ordinary participant in this world,=
> simply posting the 150 monthly logs with and index/search page would be en=
> ough.=A0 <br>
> <br>so it seems the best way to go is the mailman route.=A0 now i also reme=
> mber seeing (and trading some emails with) a guy named anthony thompson, wh=
> o's posted steps for convernting listserv to mailman.=A0 he might be a =
> resource for you to tap.=A0 he was very willing to help and i don't rec=
> all there was any huge cost associated with that help.<br>
> <br>as for getting the log files, the total package is 277MB (as of this mo=
> rning) and 75MB if it's all zipped.=A0 logs go back monthly to 1999.=A0=
> it'll have to come by pony express on a CD.=A0 right now, i have only =
> the one month's file, link posted in my earlier message.=A0 can you do =
> what you need to with that one, for testing?=A0 or with several copies of i=
> t?=A0 if i get bsu to send a dump of the thing now, i suppose i could get t=
> hem to send the rest later.=A0 can you do this migration in batches like th=
> at?=A0 anyway, tell me what you think works best and i'll do it.<br>
> <br>m<br><br clear=3D"all">=A0<br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herma=
> n Associates<br><br><a href=3D"http://MichaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerm=
> an.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.c=
> om</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a h=
> ref=3D"http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps=
> .org</a><br><a href=3D"http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org=
> </a><br>
> <br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Harold S=
> hinsato <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold=
> @shinsato.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
> yle=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204)=
> ; padding-left: 1ex;">
>
>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">
> Michael,<br>
> <br>
> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our
> archives as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be
> pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The
> advantage is that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer base,
> and we would have full control over the webhosting - so it is less
> likely we would have to face this issue again of worrying about
> being homeless.<br>
> <br>
> For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port.
> We'd just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to
> moderate the list membership. I don't know of any email list
> software that can protect you completely from trolls and spammers
> without a human being involved. If there are others willing to help
> with that task - it would be straightforward to explain how to do
> that - even if they're not technically oriented.<br><font color=3D"=
> #888888">
> <br>
> =A0=A0=A0 Harold<br>
> </font><br>
> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people
> have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in
> testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a lin=
> k
> to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting
> process and host the results so folks could compare. As convenient
> as it might be just to go from ListServe at Boise to some other
> benefactor, it's not clear to me that's necessarily the best op=
> tion.<div class=3D"im"><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
> <blockquote type=3D"cite">looking back at what harold sent earlier, it =
> seems
> that the option he's proposing is one way to go forward with a
> new, manageable, cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation.=A0 the
> archive part is included, but only as a separate part, meaning the
> new messages won't hit the old archive.=A0 we'd have an old a=
> rchive
> and then start growing a new one, nearby.=A0 so the best option is
> still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host our =
> list.=A0
> harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i&#=
> 39;d say
> it's an excellent one.<br>
> <br>
> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing.=
> =A0
> the old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe
> i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated things like
> opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new guys.=A0 if
> we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps othe=
> rs to
> do some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on (stand
> beside, i think) to the new list.<br>
> <br>
> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am gla=
> d
> to help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do
> anything very technical.=A0 and going forward, i'd prefer to have
> others step into the list sheparding tasks (small as they might
> be).=A0 i have one query out to a possible host, and if that host
> materializes, then i will stay on to support that connection.=A0
> otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br>
> <br>
> m<br>
> </blockquote>
> <br>
> <br>
> </div><div>-- <br><div class=3D"im">
> Harold Shinsato<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">harold at shins=
> ato.com</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://shinsato.com" target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com=
> </a><br>
> twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" target=3D"_blank">@haj=
> ush</a></div></div>
> </div>
>
> </blockquote></div><br>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --001636831b928a4b1004966228bc--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 19:09:07 -0700
> From: Donna Read <donna.read at managing4wellness.org>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> <html><body><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10=
> pt;"><div>Harold, Thanks so much for all you are doing. I belon=
> g to a lot of lists but this is the best one I have ever belonged to.  =
> ;I would hate to have something happen to it. I have learned so much in the=
> three weeks I have belonged to it. Kind regards, Donna</div><div><br></div=
>> <div><img title=3D"signature image" src=3D"cid:sigimg1 at 7800df548a56b992536=
> dd2a4855f5d38" border=3D"0" alt=3D"" width=3D"469" height=3D"95"></div><div=
>> <br><br></div>
> <blockquote id=3D"replyBlockquote" webmail=3D"1" style=3D"border-left: 2px =
> solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:blac=
> k; font-family:verdana;">
> <div id=3D"wmQuoteWrapper">
> -------- Original Message --------<br>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide<br>
> and act<br>
> From: Harold Shinsato <<a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shi=
> nsato.com</a>><br>
> Date: Wed, December 01, 2010 4:50 pm<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISE=
> STATE.EDU</a><br>
> <br>
> Michael,<br> <br> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman wo=
> uld keep our archives as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be=
> pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The advantage is=
> that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer base, and we would have =
> full control over the webhosting - so it is less likely we would have to fa=
> ce this issue again of worrying about being homeless.<br> <br> For OSList -=
> we don't really need technical support after the port. We'd just need what=
> ever support is getting done now on OSList to moderate the list membership.=
> I don't know of any email list software that can protect you completely fr=
> om trolls and spammers without a human being involved. If there are others =
> willing to help with that task - it would be straightforward to explain how=
> to do that - even if they're not technically oriented.<br> <br> &nbs=
> p; Harold<br> <br> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listse=
> rve - many people have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interes=
> ted in testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link=
> to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting process and =
> host the results so folks could compare. As convenient as it might be just =
> to go from ListServe at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not clear to m=
> e that's necessarily the best option.<br> <br> <br> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Mic=
> hael Herman wrote: <blockquote cite=3D"mid:AANLkTimEFaNjfHACYHS9501dO0-5Mvr=
> HMWKObnOH948n at mail.gmail.com" type=3D"cite">looking back at what harold sen=
> t earlier, it seems that the option he's proposing is one way to go forward=
> with a new, manageable, cost-free and ad-free(!) conversation. the a=
> rchive part is included, but only as a separate part, meaning the new messa=
> ges won't hit the old archive. we'd have an old archive and then star=
> t growing a new one, nearby. so the best option is still to find anot=
> her "listserv" user/customer to host our list. harold's option, as he=
> 's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an excellent one.<br> <br>=
> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the =
> old guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh m=
> iddle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, rep=
> ackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's solution=
> , we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to make the ar=
> chive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new list.<br> <br> a=
> s for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to help g=
> et this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very technical.=
> and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list shep=
> arding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to a poss=
> ible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support th=
> at connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.<br> <br> m=
> <br> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br> Harold Sh=
> insato<br> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold@=
> shinsato.com</a><br> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://shinsato.com">http=
> ://shinsato.com</a><br> twitter: <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://twitte=
> r.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div> * * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <a href=3D"=
> mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> -=
> ----------------------------- To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your option=
> s, view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">o=
> slist at listserv.boisestate.edu</a>: <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.ed=
> u/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html=
> </a> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href=3D"http://=
> www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>=20
> </div>
> </blockquote></span></body></html>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:42:34 -0000
> From: Jon Harvey <jon at jonharveyassociates.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and act
>
> ------=_NextPart_001_0272_01CB91E3.BB701680
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I bow to the technicians who are sorting this =E2=80=93 thank you!! I =
> can only support what Donna says below =E2=80=93 although I have been a =
> member for few more weeks than 3.
>
> =20
>
> Keep up all the great work.=20
>
> =20
>
> Thanks again
>
> =20
>
> Jon
>
> =20
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
> ______
>
> =20
>
> Jon Harvey MBPsS
>
> Director
>
> =20
>
> " <http://www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk/> www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk
>
> =20
>
> ( +44 (0) 7771 537535
>
> ( +44 (0) 1280 822585
>
> =E2=80=BA <mailto:jon at jonharveyassociates.co.uk> =
> jon at jonharveyassociates.co.uk
>
> =C2=B9 Skype: jonsharvey
>
> =20
>
> JHAL logo.jpg
>
> Helping you connect the prose and the passion=20
>
> to deliver superlative results
>
> =20
>
> <http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/> =
> http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/ for ideas about how to improve =
> the efficiency & effectiveness of public & third sector services
>
> <http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/> =
> http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/ for articles & ideas about =
> leadership and organisational change from a whole systems perspective
>
> <http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey> http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey for =
> conversations, ideas & questions to help build a more ambitious, =
> creative and fair world
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI> http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI to =
> connect with me on LinkedIn
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> Jon Harvey Associates Ltd
>
> Registered Office: Chandos House, School Lane, Buckingham, MK18 1HD
>
> Company Number 6661588. VAT Registration Number 936 2921 11=20
>
> =20
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.=20
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> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
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> =20
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Donna =
> Read
> Sent: 02 December 2010 02:09
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act
>
> =20
>
> Harold, Thanks so much for all you are doing. I belong to a lot of =
> lists but this is the best one I have ever belonged to. I would hate to =
> have something happen to it. I have learned so much in the three weeks I =
> have belonged to it. Kind regards, Donna
>
> =20
>
>
>
> =20
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: oslist will end soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide
> and act
> From: Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>
> Date: Wed, December 01, 2010 4:50 pm
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>
> Michael,
>
> Just a few clarifications - switching to Mailman would keep our archives =
> as seamlessly integrated as they are now. It would be pretty similar to =
> a straight ListServe to ListServe port. The advantage is that MailMan is =
> free, has a strong user/developer base, and we would have full control =
> over the webhosting - so it is less likely we would have to face this =
> issue again of worrying about being homeless.
>
> For OSList - we don't really need technical support after the port. We'd =
> just need whatever support is getting done now on OSList to moderate the =
> list membership. I don't know of any email list software that can =
> protect you completely from trolls and spammers without a human being =
> involved. If there are others willing to help with that task - it would =
> be straightforward to explain how to do that - even if they're not =
> technically oriented.
>
> Harold
>
> P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - many people have =
> posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested in testing the =
> porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link to the zip file =
> of the archive files I could test the porting process and host the =
> results so folks could compare. As convenient as it might be just to go =
> from ListServe at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not clear to me =
> that's necessarily the best option.
>
>
> On 12/1/10 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote:=20
>
> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's =
> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and =
> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as a =
> separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old archive. we'd =
> have an old archive and then start growing a new one, nearby. so the =
> best option is still to find another "listserv" user/customer to host =
> our list. harold's option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd =
> say it's an excellent one.
>
> if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty much nothing. the old =
> guys will send all our stuff to the new guys, or maybe i'll be in teh =
> middle of that, doing very complicated things like opening the envelope, =
> repackaging and mailing to the new guys. if we go with harold's =
> solution, we'll need him and perhaps others to do some techie things to =
> make the archive work as an add-on (stand beside, i think) to the new =
> list.
>
> as for harold's question about my continuing to support, i am glad to =
> help get this set up, but i'm not likely qualified to do anything very =
> technical. and going forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the =
> list sheparding tasks (small as they might be). i have one query out to =
> a possible host, and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to =
> support that connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this on.
>
> m
>
> =20
>
> --=20
> Harold Shinsato
> harold at shinsato.com
> http://shinsato.com
> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>=20
>
> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20
>
> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist=20
>
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
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> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
> vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>I bow to the technicians who are sorting this =E2=80=93 thank you!! I =
> can only support what Donna says below =E2=80=93 although I have been a =
> member for few more weeks than 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Keep up all the great work. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Thanks again<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'>Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>> <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1D1B1=
> 1'>______________________________________________________________________=
> _________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1D1B1=
> 1'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>Jon Harvey MBPsS<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>Director<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#C00000'>"</spa=
> n><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>> </span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk/"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#4A442A'>www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk</s=
> pan></a></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#C00000'><o:p> =
> ;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#C00000'>(</span><s=
> pan =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
> 0'> </span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>+44 (0) 7771 537535<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#C00000'>(</span><s=
> pan =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
> 0'> </span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>+44 (0) 1280 822585<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#C00000'>=E2=80=BA</=
> span></b><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
> 0'> </span></b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
> 0'> </span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"mailto:jon at jonharveyassociates.co.uk"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#4A442A'>jon at jonharveyassociates.co.uk</s=
> pan></a></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#C00000'>=C2=B9</spa=
> n></b><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
> 0'>=C2=A0 </span></b><i><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>Skype</span></i><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>: jonsharvey</span><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
> 0'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><img border=3D0 width=3D73 height=3D36 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" =
> src=3D"cid:image001.jpg at 01CB91E3.B7A097F0" alt=3D"JHAL =
> logo.jpg"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
> style=3D'font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Tempus Sans =
> ITC";color:#C00000'>Helping you connect the prose and the passion =
> <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
> style=3D'font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Tempus Sans =
> ITC";color:#C00000'>to deliver superlative =
> results<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://smallcreativeideas.blogsp=
> ot.com/</span></a></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'> for ideas about how to improve the efficiency & =
> effectiveness of public & third sector =
> services<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://jonharveyassociates.blogs=
> pot.com/</span></a></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'> for</span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'> </span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'>articles & ideas about leadership and organisational change from =
> a whole systems perspective<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://twitter.com/JonSHarvey</s=
> pan></a></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'> for conversations, ideas & questions to help build a more =
> ambitious, creative and fair world<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>http://tinyurl.com/JonHarveyLI</=
> span></a></span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'> to connect with me on LinkedIn</span><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4A442=
> A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
> <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>=
> Jon Harvey Associates Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>=
> Registered Office: Chandos House, School Lane, Buckingham, MK18 =
> 1HD<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>=
> Company Number 6661588. VAT Registration Number 936 2921 11 =
> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#948A54'>=
> <o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#098114'>=
> Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you. =
> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#098114'>=
> All business mileage is offset with </span></b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><a href=3D"http://www.carbon-clear.com/uk/index.php"><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#C00000;t=
> ext-decoration:none'>http://www.carbon-clear.com</span></b></a></span><sp=
> an =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
> D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
> style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
> 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
> </b><span lang=3DEN-US =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSLIST =
> [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Donna =
> Read<br><b>Sent:</b> 02 December 2010 02:09<br><b>To:</b> =
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: oslist will end =
> soon -- it's time to deliberate, decide and =
> act<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> Harold, Thanks so much for all you are doing. I belong to a =
> lot of lists but this is the best one I have ever belonged to. I =
> would hate to have something happen to it. I have learned so much in the =
> three weeks I have belonged to it. Kind regards, =
> Donna<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> <o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> <img border=3D0 width=3D469 height=3D95 id=3D"_x0000_i1025" =
> src=3D"cid:sigimg1 at 7800df548a56b992536dd2a4855f5d38"><o:p></o:p></span></=
> p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> <o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
> style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
> 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' =
> id=3DreplyBlockquote><div id=3DwmQuoteWrapper><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> -------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: oslist will end soon =
> -- it's time to deliberate, decide<br>and act<br>From: Harold Shinsato =
> <<a =
> href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com">harold at shinsato.com</a>><br>Date: =
> Wed, December 01, 2010 4:50 pm<br>To: <a =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</a><br><br>Michael,<br><br>Just a few clarifications - switching to =
> Mailman would keep our archives as seamlessly integrated as they are =
> now. It would be pretty similar to a straight ListServe to ListServe =
> port. The advantage is that MailMan is free, has a strong user/developer =
> base, and we would have full control over the webhosting - so it is less =
> likely we would have to face this issue again of worrying about being =
> homeless.<br><br>For OSList - we don't really need technical support =
> after the port. We'd just need whatever support is getting done now on =
> OSList to moderate the list membership. I don't know of any email list =
> software that can protect you completely from trolls and spammers =
> without a human being involved. If there are others willing to help with =
> that task - it would be straightforward to explain how to do that - even =
> if they're not technically oriented.<br><br> =
> Harold<br><br>P.S. About porting archives to Mailman from Listserve - =
> many people have posted articles about how to do this. I'd be interested =
> in testing the porting process for the archives if you'd send me a link =
> to the zip file of the archive files I could test the porting process =
> and host the results so folks could compare. As convenient as it might =
> be just to go from ListServe at Boise to some other benefactor, it's not =
> clear to me that's necessarily the best option.<br><br><br>On 12/1/10 =
> 2:16 PM, Michael Herman wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> looking back at what harold sent earlier, it seems that the option he's =
> proposing is one way to go forward with a new, manageable, cost-free and =
> ad-free(!) conversation. the archive part is included, but only as =
> a separate part, meaning the new messages won't hit the old =
> archive. we'd have an old archive and then start growing a new =
> one, nearby. so the best option is still to find another =
> "listserv" user/customer to host our list. harold's =
> option, as he's noted, is a second choice -- but i'd say it's an =
> excellent one.<br><br>if we find another listserv host, we'll do pretty =
> much nothing. the old guys will send all our stuff to the new =
> guys, or maybe i'll be in teh middle of that, doing very complicated =
> things like opening the envelope, repackaging and mailing to the new =
> guys. if we go with harold's solution, we'll need him and perhaps =
> others to do some techie things to make the archive work as an add-on =
> (stand beside, i think) to the new list.<br><br>as for harold's question =
> about my continuing to support, i am glad to help get this set up, but =
> i'm not likely qualified to do anything very technical. and going =
> forward, i'd prefer to have others step into the list sheparding tasks =
> (small as they might be). i have one query out to a possible host, =
> and if that host materializes, then i will stay on to support that =
> connection. otherwise, i hope others will take this =
> on.<br><br>m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> <o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> -- <br>Harold Shinsato<br><a href=3D"mailto:harold at shinsato.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">harold at shinsato.com</a><br><a =
> href=3D"http://shinsato.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>twitter: <a =
> href=3D"http://twitter.com/hajush" =
> target=3D"_blank">@hajush</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
> class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>> * * =
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> End of OSLIST Digest - 30 Nov 2010 to 1 Dec 2010 (#2010-289)
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