the future of the oslist -- news and a proposal

Denise Tennen denisetennen at comcast.net
Thu Aug 19 14:47:50 PDT 2010


thanks Michael

Your suggestion sounds good to me.

Denise
On Aug 19, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Michael Herman wrote:

> hello all, a bit of very important news and a proposal for the  
> future of the oslist.
>
> the oslist -- in it's current form -- will cease to exist within  
> the next year.  i have been in contact with our boise state hosts  
> and with the makers of the software that drives our list and  
> archives.  i've developed a bit of a work-around plan (working  
> around paying the software company or anyone else large sums of  
> money annually to run the future of the list).  the softward  
> company has confirmed for me that this (rather non-standard use of  
> their software) is indeed technically feasible.  another nice thing  
> about it is that it makes the oslist structure look even more like  
> what we do in open space meetings.
>
> the oslist at boise state is done as of june 30th 2011, they are  
> cancelling their license and migrating all university groups to  
> googlegroups.  on that date, oslist will disappear, unless we do  
> something to move it.
>
> IF we can find another organization to host us as bsu has, then we  
> can (pay someone to) migrate our archive and user list and go on  
> our merry way, subject again to the whims of their IT department.
>
> IF, instead, we choose to fund our own implementation of the  
> listserv (brand name) software, we can migrate our archives and  
> continue our conversation.
>
> ALTERNATIVELY, or more creatively... we can contract with l-soft  
> directly to set-up and maintain our archive, control that for  
> ourselves going forward, AND set it up in a way that would add to  
> the archive going forward any postings from any other email list,  
> like germany, europe, australia, uk, etc.  what's more, this turns  
> out to be the cheapest option, because we only need to pay for  
> listserv software for the archiving function, rather than for a  
> full-blown list that will deliver to 700 people at a cost of almost  
> $2 for EVERY message sent to the list (this assumes we would pay  
> for the service rather than license and run this for ourselves.   
> harrison is fond of saying that we have done all this without a  
> marketing department.  why add an IT department now?)  this is my  
> suggestion.
>
> and this is what i'm proposing (offering) to do now:
>
> 1. migrate all of our members to a new oslist at googlegroups (yes,  
> googlegroups.  people who pay attention to such things seem to  
> prefer the functionality there and since our list is public anyway,  
> there are no issues with privacy and control of content.  but we  
> will also archive in two other places, a gmail account AND a  
> listserv system that will keep adding all new posts to the old  
> listserv archive.)
>
> 2. migrate the archive (12 years, i think, and on our way to 29,000  
> messages) to a new list that will have only one member account.
>
> 3. make that one member account (oslist at gmail.com, for instance) a  
> member of the new oslist at googlegroups.com AND any other lists  
> around the world.  THEN set that member account to forward  
> everything it receives to the migrated archive.  so other lists  
> become like breakouts and the oslist archive a global community  
> record wall of what's happening.
>
> it this way, we achieve:
>
> 1. a new, free, and durable oslist at googlegroups, with all the  
> bells and whistles there
> 2. the survival of the 29,000-message archive in publicly- 
> searchable perpetuity, hosted by l-soft (makers of listserv software)
> 3. the addition of all new oslist and other list postings to the  
> central archive
>
> what does it cost?
>
> 1. continuing the oslist conversation in a new googlegroups oslist  
> account costs nothing.
> 2. forwarding to the archive of all os community list mail from any  
> list, costs nothing
> 3. migration of the oslist archive and setup of new archive list  
> function costs $500
> 4. the cost of maintaining the archive would be $500 per year
>
> i'd expect that $500 is fundable through donations and could easily  
> be handled in the normal course of business and budgeting of the  
> osi-usa.  i assume it's better to have a legal entity with a  
> standing bank account take responsibility for it, rather than an  
> individual or loose group of colleagues.  but i'll leave it to osi- 
> usa or another group to say they'll take this on.
>
> i *think* that any other solution to this results in one or more of  
> the following... loss of the archives, costs that run to $3000 or  
> $4000 annually (and are totally variable based on list size),  
> reliance on volunteer community members to be our global IT  
> department, additional cost of paying community members to admin  
> the system, reliance on the goodwill of some other organization  
> (which might be generous initially but could pull the plug with  
> less warning than we've been given now), no ability to archive many  
> lists in our one online record.
>
> i will check with boise state to confirm their support for our  
> migration.  i'm told by l-soft that migrating the archive to a new  
> location/list is pretty simple stuff.
>
> i'm willing to implement this, but not fund it.  i'd like at least  
> four others to sign on as stewards of the shift.  more would be  
> fine.  and i hope osi-usa will be the official steward for  
> donations/funding matters.
>
> i don't have time right now to discuss this with 700 subscribers.   
> i'm just one guy, one list member.  this is just my personal  
> recommendation and proposal.  BUT... if there are concerns about  
> any of this, i'm glad to try to keep up with clarifying questions.
>
> if you think this is a good way to proceed, please say so.  if you  
> have something to contribute to the process (time, attention,  
> money, etc) please say so.  if you have concerns, let's hear them,  
> too -- BUT if you think we shouldn't do something in this proposal,  
> then bring your own suggestions and proposals for what we should do  
> instead, making sure that the solution as modified (or replaced) is  
> still complete (technically, financially, etc.).
>
> since we don't have anything to discuss about IF we should move or  
> really even WHEN we should move, the only question is HOW to  
> preserve the archive and WHERE to continue the main conversation.
>
> ideally, this would all happen when things quiet down a bit at the  
> end of the year, mid- to late-december.  that's when i would be  
> most able to support these things.  anyone else could do it sooner  
> or later, but i do think that distinguishing our two tasks,  
> maintaining the archive AND continuing the conversation, is a  
> valuable way to think about this now.
>
> what can you contribute to this (new) beginning?
>
> m
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://RonanParkTrail.com
> http://ManorNeighbors.com
> http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
>
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