Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping
douglas germann
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Fri Sep 11 18:38:53 PDT 2009
Thanks, Becky!
:- Doug.
On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 22:10 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> re: Christopher Alexander.
>
> Congratulations!
>
> -b.
>
> 2009/9/9 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> Becky--
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Yes, I read A Pattern Language probably 10 or 15 years ago.
> The set I am
> reading now, The Nature of Order, was written 25 to 30 years
> later (up
> to at least 2002), and offers where Alexander's thought had
> progressed
> from there. He makes many references to the Eishin campus in
> these
> books. I am glad to see more photos of it on that Web page you
> linked.
> Too bad that the final version of the pattern language is not
> available.
> I like reading his kind of poetry!
>
> One of the things he distinguishes is a "pattern language"
> from a "form
> language," and I wonder if what you are referring to in your
> x, y, z
> wording might be a form language?
>
> I guess I am not sure what a mental rule is, and what examples
> you might
> give of mental rules.
>
> Thanks, Becky!
>
> :- Doug.
>
>
> On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 17:28 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> > Doug,
> >
> > What really matters are the mental rules that determine 'the
> DNA' (the
> > enfolded order*) of each physical space, that *would* have
> an
> > enhancing effect on 'Opening Space' for instance --not a/the
> exact
> > predetermined geometry/form of space itself. < Apropos you
> may want to
> > read A Pattern Language at some point, also by Chris
> Alexander (at
> > al.) >
> >
> > The same mental rules could generate shapes of different
> forms as in
> > each case, order does not unfold in void -- its unfolding is
> affected
> > by 'local' conditions (geography, culture etc).
> >
> > Along the same lines, the enfolded order of each Open Space
> event as
> > it unflods --differently every time -- affects the existing
> structure
> > of a space shaped in a x, y, z way. Then site, space,
> participants and
> > ideas end up forming a coherent meaningful 'whole'. But this
> 'whole'
> > would have different physical properties and outcome even if
> OS events
> > are repeated in the same room and under the same conditions.
> >
> > You may also want to read how the design (site and
> buildings) of the
> > Eishin School (Japan) affected the knowledge management and
> the
> > academic performance in that specific student community. You
> will be
> > able to find some analogies with OS (Unfortunately I
> haven't got any
> > links of relevent lit.)
> >
> > Enjoy your reads.
> >
> >
> > -b.
> >
> > * See David Bohm
> >
> > 2009/9/8 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> > Artur--
> >
> > Thank you for helping me think this through.
> >
> > I have been reading further in Christopher Alexander
> and find
> > myself in
> > a chapter where he speaks of the mass and the space
> of a
> > building as
> > interlocking. This gives me a new light, I think, on
> my
> > question and on
> > your response.
> >
> > What the question asks is subtle but for all that
> very real.
> > We are
> > shaping some space and the circle, the wall, the
> law, the
> > diversity are
> > the things with which we shape that space: they are
> the form,
> > the mass.
> > But I want to look at the space itself: what is its
> shape?
> >
> > This takes a change in perspective, much like an
> artist
> > looking at the
> > negative space that surrounds a maple leaf. We know
> the shape
> > of the
> > circle and the breathing in and breathing out from
> small to
> > large
> > groups; what shape is that which meets this shape?
> >
> > Here we are probably left to using word pictures,
> stories and
> > the like.
> > I remember someone once using "banter" to describe
> one
> > characteristic of
> > the space we are shaping. What is the shape of the
> space we
> > are
> > touching?
> >
> > :- Doug.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:22 -0700, Artur Silva
> wrote:
> > > Hi, Doug:
> > >
> > > In my opinion, what gives shape to the space are
> what I call
> > the
> > > foundations of OST: the circle, the invitation,
> diversity,
> > the Law,
> > > etc. In fact, we build the garden.
> > >
> > > The "thing" that the organization or community
> desires to
> > create is
> > > the content, or the building. That is made
> possible by the
> > OST design
> > > and foundations we have created - the garden, as
> you said.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Artur
> > >
> > > PS: For more about OST "foundations" make a search
> in the
> > OSLIST
> > > Archives.
> > > --------------
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, douglas germann
> > <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: douglas germann
> <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> > > Subject: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander &
> the space
> > we are
> > > shaping
> > > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:20 AM
> > >
> > > Hi--
> > >
> > > Still reading Christopher Alexander and
> finding lots
> > of
> > > parallels to OS:
> > >
> > > Most important of all, it was the
> space
> > (more than the
> > > building)
> > > which was being formed. That flies
> against
> > > 20th-century
> > > awareness, which places too much
> emphasis on
> > > buildings. What
> > > mattered about the building is the
> > contribution it
> > > makes to the
> > > formation of shaped, coherent,
> public space.
> > That was
> > > where the
> > > inspiration came from, and it was
> that—later
> > —which
> > > made it
> > > possible to make the building
> beautiful.
> > Christopher
> > > Alexander,
> > > The Nature of Order: An Essay on
> the Art of
> > Building
> > > and The
> > > Nature of the Universe, Book
> Three: A Vision
> > of a
> > > Living World,
> > > p 138
> > >
> > > In another instance, he says that in
> designing a
> > home, it is
> > > best to
> > > design the garden first: when that is
> placed in the
> > most
> > > health-giving,
> > > nurturing spot, then the house is made
> that much
> > better, that
> > > much more
> > > wonderful. Garden first!
> > >
> > > The question this raises for me for OS is:
> most
> > often the
> > > communities in
> > > which we are opening space want to
> accomplish some
> > *thing*.
> > > This thing
> > > is Alexander's building. But he does not
> look first
> > at the
> > > building;
> > > rather he tries to shape public
> space--give it
> > volume, life.
> > > What are we
> > > trying to shape when we open space?
> > >
> > > It is easy for me to throw in a glib "we
> simply are
> > there to
> > > open
> > > space," but I think the inquiry needs to
> go deeper
> > than that.
> > > What is
> > > the shape of opened space? What makes it
> coherent?
> > What are
> > > the factors
> > > which give it shape?
> > >
> > > :- Doug.
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > > * *
> >
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