Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping

douglas germann 76066.515 at compuserve.com
Fri Sep 11 18:38:53 PDT 2009


Thanks, Becky!

			:- Doug.

On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 22:10 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> re: Christopher Alexander. 
> 
> Congratulations!
> 
> -b.
> 
> 2009/9/9 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
>         Becky--
>         
>         Many thanks.
>         
>         Yes, I read A Pattern Language probably 10 or 15 years ago.
>         The set I am
>         reading now, The Nature of Order, was written 25 to 30 years
>         later (up
>         to at least 2002), and offers where Alexander's thought had
>         progressed
>         from there. He makes many references to the Eishin campus in
>         these
>         books. I am glad to see more photos of it on that Web page you
>         linked.
>         Too bad that the final version of the pattern language is not
>         available.
>         I like reading his kind of poetry!
>         
>         One of the things he distinguishes is a "pattern language"
>         from a "form
>         language," and I wonder if what you are referring to in your
>         x, y, z
>         wording might be a form language?
>         
>         I guess I am not sure what a mental rule is, and what examples
>         you might
>         give of mental rules.
>         
>         Thanks, Becky!
>         
>                                :- Doug.
>         
>         
>         On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 17:28 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
>         > Doug,
>         >
>         > What really matters are the mental rules that determine 'the
>         DNA' (the
>         > enfolded order*) of each physical space, that *would* have
>         an
>         > enhancing effect on 'Opening Space' for instance --not a/the
>         exact
>         > predetermined geometry/form of space itself. < Apropos you
>         may want to
>         > read A Pattern Language at some point, also by Chris
>         Alexander (at
>         > al.) >
>         >
>         > The same mental rules could generate shapes of different
>         forms as in
>         > each case, order does not unfold in void -- its unfolding is
>         affected
>         > by 'local' conditions (geography, culture etc).
>         >
>         > Along the same lines, the enfolded order of each Open Space
>         event as
>         > it unflods --differently every time -- affects the existing
>         structure
>         > of a space shaped in a x, y, z way. Then site, space,
>         participants and
>         > ideas end up forming a coherent meaningful 'whole'. But this
>         'whole'
>         > would have different physical properties and outcome even if
>         OS events
>         > are repeated in the same room and under the same conditions.
>         >
>         > You may also want to read how the design (site and
>         buildings) of the
>         > Eishin School (Japan) affected the knowledge management and
>         the
>         > academic performance in that specific student community. You
>         will be
>         > able to find some analogies with OS (Unfortunately I
>          haven't got any
>         > links of relevent lit.)
>         >
>         > Enjoy your reads.
>         >
>         >
>         > -b.
>         >
>         > * See David Bohm
>         >
>         > 2009/9/8 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
>         >         Artur--
>         >
>         >         Thank you for helping me think this through.
>         >
>         >         I have been reading further in Christopher Alexander
>         and find
>         >         myself in
>         >         a chapter where he speaks of the mass and the space
>         of a
>         >         building as
>         >         interlocking. This gives me a new light, I think, on
>         my
>         >         question and on
>         >         your response.
>         >
>         >         What the question asks is subtle but for all that
>         very real.
>         >         We are
>         >         shaping some space and the circle, the wall, the
>         law, the
>         >         diversity are
>         >         the things with which we shape that space: they are
>         the form,
>         >         the mass.
>         >         But I want to look at the space itself: what is its
>         shape?
>         >
>         >         This takes a change in perspective, much like an
>         artist
>         >         looking at the
>         >         negative space that surrounds a maple leaf. We know
>         the shape
>         >         of the
>         >         circle and the breathing in and breathing out from
>         small to
>         >         large
>         >         groups; what shape is that which meets this shape?
>         >
>         >         Here we are probably left to using word pictures,
>         stories and
>         >         the like.
>         >         I remember someone once using "banter" to describe
>         one
>         >         characteristic of
>         >         the space we are shaping. What is the shape of the
>         space we
>         >         are
>         >         touching?
>         >
>         >                                :- Doug.
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >         On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:22 -0700, Artur Silva
>         wrote:
>         >         > Hi, Doug:
>         >         >
>         >         > In my opinion, what gives shape to the space are
>         what I call
>         >         the
>         >         > foundations of OST: the circle, the invitation,
>         diversity,
>         >         the Law,
>         >         > etc. In fact, we build the garden.
>         >         >
>         >         > The "thing" that the organization or community
>         desires to
>         >         create is
>         >         > the content, or the building. That is made
>         possible by the
>         >         OST design
>         >         > and foundations we have created - the garden, as
>         you said.
>         >         >
>         >         > Regards
>         >         >
>         >         > Artur
>         >         >
>         >         > PS: For more about OST "foundations" make a search
>         in the
>         >         OSLIST
>         >         > Archives.
>         >         > --------------
>         >         >
>         >         > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, douglas germann
>         >         <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         >         From: douglas germann
>         <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
>         >         >         Subject: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander &
>         the space
>         >         we are
>         >         >         shaping
>         >         >         To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>         >         >         Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:20 AM
>         >         >
>         >         >         Hi--
>         >         >
>         >         >         Still reading Christopher Alexander and
>         finding lots
>         >         of
>         >         >         parallels to OS:
>         >         >
>         >         >                 Most important of all, it was the
>         space
>         >         (more than the
>         >         >         building)
>         >         >                 which was being formed. That flies
>         against
>         >         >         20th-century
>         >         >                 awareness, which places too much
>         emphasis on
>         >         >         buildings. What
>         >         >                 mattered about the building is the
>         >         contribution it
>         >         >         makes to the
>         >         >                 formation of shaped, coherent,
>         public space.
>         >         That was
>         >         >         where the
>         >         >                 inspiration came from, and it was
>         that—later
>         >         —which
>         >         >         made it
>         >         >                 possible to make the building
>         beautiful.
>         >         Christopher
>         >         >         Alexander,
>         >         >                 The Nature of Order: An Essay on
>         the Art of
>         >         Building
>         >         >         and The
>         >         >                 Nature of the Universe, Book
>         Three: A Vision
>         >         of a
>         >         >         Living World,
>         >         >                 p 138
>         >         >
>         >         >         In another instance, he says that in
>         designing a
>         >         home, it is
>         >         >         best to
>         >         >         design the garden first: when that is
>         placed in the
>         >         most
>         >         >         health-giving,
>         >         >         nurturing spot, then the house is made
>         that much
>         >         better, that
>         >         >         much more
>         >         >         wonderful. Garden first!
>         >         >
>         >         >         The question this raises for me for OS is:
>         most
>         >         often the
>         >         >         communities in
>         >         >         which we are opening space want to
>         accomplish some
>         >         *thing*.
>         >         >         This thing
>         >         >         is Alexander's building. But he does not
>         look first
>         >         at the
>         >         >         building;
>         >         >         rather he tries to shape public
>         space--give it
>         >         volume, life.
>         >         >         What are we
>         >         >         trying to shape when we open space?
>         >         >
>         >         >         It is easy for me to throw in a glib "we
>         simply are
>         >         there to
>         >         >         open
>         >         >         space," but I think the inquiry needs to
>         go deeper
>         >         than that.
>         >         >         What is
>         >         >         the shape of opened space? What makes it
>         coherent?
>         >         What are
>         >         >         the factors
>         >         >         which give it shape?
>         >         >
>         >         >                     :- Doug.
>         >         >
>         >         >         *
>         >         >
>         >         >
>         >         > * *
>         >
>         ==========================================================
>         >         > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>         >         ------------------------------ To
>         >         > subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view
>         the
>         >         archives of
>         >         > oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>         >         >
>         http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn
>         >         about
>         >         > OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>         >         > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>         >
>         >
>         >         *
>         >         *
>         >
>         ==========================================================
>         >
>         >         OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>         >         ------------------------------
>         >         To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>         >         view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>         >         http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>         >
>         >         To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>         >         http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>         >
>         >
>         
>         
> 

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist



More information about the OSList mailing list