aperiodic grid?
douglas germann
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Tue Oct 6 07:04:02 PDT 2009
Harrison--
Actually, just the opposite! I see people work and agonize so hard just
to make all the sessions exactly the same length! So I think, let the
times fall where they will.
:- Doug.
On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 09:21 -0400, Harrison Owen wrote:
> Douglas I can appreciate you concerns (people eating, deeper conversations,
> etc.) -- but I can't for the life of me understand why the additional effort
> that you made would add substantively to the resolutions of the concerns in
> a way that wouldn't have just worked itself out naturally. People need to
> eat -- Do it! People want to talk deeply -- Go for it! Sounds like working
> much too hard!
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Drive
> Potomac, Maryland 20854
> Phone 301-365-2093
> Skype hhowen
> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
> Personal website www.ho-image.com
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of douglas
> germann
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:00 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: aperiodic grid?
>
> Michael--
>
> Some of the things we considered in setting the times, or would consider
> for an OS:
>
> o Some people had health necessity to eat promptly at Noon, so one
> segment had to end then
>
> o Time we got done with the intro and got groups chosen
>
> o Desire to start with a longer, deeper conversation
>
> o Need to allow ample time at lunch for exploring the outdoors (natural
> park setting)
>
> o Simply mixing up long and short times
>
> o Allowing people to choose whether their subject seemed to fit into a
> longer or shorter slot
>
> o Shorter time slots after lunch fit better to keep the attention up and
> give people more chance to meet with more people and get the exercise of
> moving around
>
> o Sometimes it is difficult to work out exact same time slots for a
> day--so instead of worrying about it all, we let the time slots fit the
> day: intro is done at 10:00 and lunch is at 12:00? Fine, do two 60
> minute slots here and do the 75 or 90 minute slots later.... Whatever
> time shows up is the right time....
>
> On Mon, 2009-10-05 at 09:52 -0500, Michael Herman wrote:
> > how did you decide on the times, doug? how does this sort of schedule
> > not presuppose somehting about the rhythm of the day that we can't
> > really know about in advance?
>
> Not necessarily, Michael. We could ask it another way: does rigid 90
> minute sessions presume that everything can and will fit well in those
> time slots? Of course not. Neither will they fit in any pre-set time
> slots.
>
>
> > thinking another way, if the timing we post matters, then we'd best
> > get it right. which would have to be pretty lucky. and if it
> > doesn't matter, then why mess with it?
>
> Exactly. Do what creates the best feeling (not the same as what feels
> good--see Christopher Alexander, The Nature of Order) for the day, and
> don't worry about it any more.
>
>
> > so, even as i've wondered about such arrangements, and tried
> > occasionally (in minor ways, just to fit time slots to client
> > constraints on total time) i don't know how we could ever make any
> > standard at all.
>
> Right: No standards, other than what makes the day whole.
> >
> > for that matter, how do we decide between 1.5 and 1.0 and 0.75 and
> > other same-length slots, other than some gut sense of what wants to
> > happen, seems like it might work... or what will fit?
>
> Fit is part of it, and a big part. And, if you get your inviters
> together and see what seems to make the day more alive, more whole, you
> may be surprised to find that people will generally agree on the grid
> variations.
>
>
> > in short OS sessions we often have to choose between 1.5 and 1.0... a
> > 3.0-hour block forces a choice between 2 x 1.5 or 3 x 1.0 sessions.
>
> Or 1 at 1.0, 1 at 1.5 and 1 at 0.5. The 0.5 for me adds some liveliness
> to the mix, spice or punctuation.
>
> > i always thinik about this as a choice between depth and breadth. in
> > more established groups and older issues, i usually opt for 1.5s.. in
> > groups just forming, esp community groups with fewer connections, i
> > tend toward 1.0s, so that we get more issues raised and more people
> > meeting more others in more sessions. more voices.
>
> Yes, that speaks to me, too.
> >
> >
> > anyway, what drove the creation of this schedule and what do you think
> > happened differently because the times were all funny?
> >
> > m
>
> Funny? The humor, of course! <grin> Actually, the items listed above, as
> well as a desire to fit the activities.
>
> So the 75 and 30 were conversations, the first one about the inviting
> question of the retreat, the second asking for what threads people saw
> in the earlier conversation.
>
> The 90 was lunch and time to explore the grounds (a large park with many
> short trails through the woods nearby). The 15 (sorry for the typo) was
> for aerobic activities and singing; the 60 was for art (the children
> joined the adults for this activity); the 20 was a circle for
> reflections on the day.
>
> So we were fitting the activities to the appropriate time slots.
> Everything was pretty loose so that when things expanded there was time
> available, and when they got done earlier, that was fine, too. Kind of
> open space-like.
>
> :- Doug.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Michael Herman
> > Michael Herman Associates
> >
> > http://www.michaelherman.com
> > http://www.ronanparktrail.com
> > http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org
> >
> > 312-280-7838 (mobile)
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:15 AM, douglas germann
> > <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> > Hi--
> >
> > Anybody use an aperiodic grid for OS?
> >
> > Here's what I mean: In the big room at an OS meeting, we can
> > have many
> > simultaneous conversations going on at once, and the physical
> > space used
> > varies comfortably with the size and needs of the group. How
> > about time,
> > too?
> >
> > A couple of weeks ago I facilitated an annual retreat for a
> > Meeting of
> > Quakers. It was opening some space, but was not OS.
> > Nevertheless I think
> > I learned something: We made the conversation time slots
> > unequal:
> >
> > 10:15 75 min
> > 11:30 30 min
> > 12:00 90 min
> > 13:30 150 min
> > 13:45 60 min
> > 14:45 20 min
> > 15:05 Closing circle
> >
> > Has anyone tried something like this in OS? See any good in
> > it? I think
> > I want to try it again....
> >
> > :- Doug.
> >
> > *
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