Come join us at Open Space Technology World Community Ning site!!
Denise Tennen
denisetennen at comcast.net
Tue Nov 17 07:49:58 PST 2009
Hi Kaliya
I'm not understanding what is in the way of you doing what you want
to do.
what am I missing here?
Denise
On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:06 AM, Kaliya wrote:
> My passion is for an open transparent "open space world" site that
> is collaboratively run.
>
> Some coherent well thoughtout community deliberated strategy for
> our online life - that includes adoption of open platforms and open
> standards.
>
> I am naming a dysfunction a disruption in "the field of openness"
> in 2 ways
>
> 1. Choosing a closed proprietary commercial place for the global
> community to be invited to by world wide leaders.
>
> 2. That you Michael are dominating and controlling of a community
> asset and blocking progress on updating and opening it.
>
> If you can't hear that and actually repond to these points rather
> then pointing back at me "re my passion" then I guess you are deaf.
>
> -kaliya
>
>
>
> Kaliya
> www.identitywoman.net
>
> On Nov 16, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Michael Herman
> <michael at michaelherman.com> wrote:
>
>> i think you're forgetting two things, kaliya.
>>
>> first, nobody is or can be "bringing the community" anywhere.
>> anyone can invite all of us to anywhere and each of us will make
>> our own choices about showing up. no bringing at all.
>>
>> second, the open space institute is not responsible for your
>> passion -- but you could be. if you think something's missing on
>> the great ost wall of the internet, just post it up there
>> yourself. you certainly have the vision and skills to create the
>> things you want to see. just go do it.
>>
>> as for ownership of stuff like ning content... have you ever
>> noticed that we don't actually own our 13+ years of oslist
>> content? but if they closed us down tomorrow (and this really did
>> *almost* happen a little while back), i'm sure we'd be back
>> together again someplace else in a matter of days.
>>
>> meanwhile, we do already have dozens of community sites and sub-
>> sites in this community, each one the product of personal passion
>> bounded by responsibility. and then a bunch of individual sites
>> that offer even more. i rather like that our web presence is so
>> big and open that anyone can make an offering and be part of it,
>> and that the whole of it is so much bigger than any single site or
>> institute. we're bigger, too, than your proverbial bus.
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Herman
>> Michael Herman Associates
>>
>> http://www.michaelherman.com
>> http://www.ronanparktrail.com
>> http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org
>>
>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Kaliya *
>> <identitywoman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> While appreciate the invitation to this space.
>>
>> I really object to bringing the community to private service. The
>> company NING is just like facebook or myspace it is managed and
>> controlled ultimately by a corporation.
>>
>> It is closed source (the code that is used underlying the site is
>> owned and not viewable by us).
>>
>> The data of our use and the people on it - it is not clear about
>> where it goes.
>>
>> The community life all the information is "stuck" in the system -
>> it is not using open standards - so that at some point we wanted
>> to leave NING we could.
>>
>> Ning does not have open standards avaliable for the activities on
>> the site and HAS NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY of the conversations
>> around developing or adopting those under development for social
>> activities on the web.
>>
>> There is NO Reason to do this.
>>
>> I think it would be much more responsible to get a REAL COMMUNITY
>> LIFE AROUND
>>
>> 1) A WIKI that is build on an open source "mainstream" wiki.
>> 2) A BLOG with community members contributing to and with
>> different members free to start their own blogs
>> 3) A robust commenting system
>> 4) A twitter strategy for lists and community connections in that
>> medium.
>>
>> ALL of the above can be built on open source tools
>> On servers that we manage and control. ( Or in the cloud but on
>> our terms and we can move to a new service if we don't like. )
>>
>> No corporate entity can choose to turn it off. We "own" it.
>>
>> All of the above can implement a common way to let members of the
>> community login across all of them with one login/password using
>> OpenID.
>>
>> NING HAS NOT PLANS to Implement OpenID - (or any of the other
>> standards)
>> http://developer.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=1185512%3ATopic%3A11361
>>
>>
>> I have been talking about this for well over a year but apparently
>> there is no movement by the Open Space institute by the actually
>> developing the community tools in community.
>>
>>
>> Kaliya * <identitywoman at gmail.com>
>> To: OSLIST <OSLIST at listserv.boisestate.edu>
>> Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:10 PM
>>
>> Lisa just pinged me about this e-mail on the list and asked I
>> respond.
>> I don't have time until next week to surface and comment fully. I
>> on the 4th day of 12 days in a row of "traditional" conferences
>> that I attending as a participant speaker.
>>
>>
>> At the core of a comment I made in response to a request for a
>> donation to the OSI USA.
>> I would like to see the core community site have:
>> * a mainstream wiki that has broad access rights. (this is an
>> editable website) yes there is currently a wiki - and no it is not
>> a current mainstream wiki platform (there for has a non-normal
>> syntax) and it has restricted access rights.
>> * an aggregation of blogs and another one for microblogging for
>> practitioners that pulls in the feeds from all the things that
>> practitioners publish in these formats aggregated (via RSS) into
>> one space (example from my technical community is Planet Identity
>> (http://www.planetidentity.org)
>> * admin access rights and responsibility held by several people
>> (not just one person who if hit by a truck basically limits
>> capacity of the whole community to function).
>>
>> -Kaliya
>>
>> TECHNOLOGY strategy for this community should be done in an open
>> transparent way.
>>
>> It should use "the best of" open source (this is very different
>> then "free tools" that are closed source and corporate owned with
>> "them untimately in control) and focus on using open standards
>> where possible.
>>
>> It should be developed in a way that includes the wisdom of those
>> of us with tech backgrounds and done in a way that explains our
>> decisions to smart people who are "not techies" so they understand
>> the decisions/strategies and agree they are in alignment with the
>> community values and vision.
>>
>>
>> global proceedings aggregator?
>> Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com> Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at
>> 11:54 PM
>> Reply-To: OSLIST <OSLIST at listserv.boisestate.edu>
>> To: OSLIST at listserv.boisestate.edu
>> here's a new one, i think. for the techies among us.
>>
>> how would you capture proceedings if you were to have, say,
>> dozens, or
>> even hundreds of events convened simultaneously and you wanted
>> everybody everywhere to be able to post their proceedings into one
>> central place. everybody except spammers, of course. videos can be
>> posted to youtube and tagged. photos to flickr. but what about the
>> text proceedings? and there is also the issue of a directory of
>> event
>> locations. hoping this wouldn't require a dedicated
>> application/platform. here are some ideas.
>>
>> -listserve like yahoo or google group - non-public is a downside
>> -facebook group - non-public is downside here too
>> -wiki - might be too complex for rapid scale-up
>> -blog - might be coolest, but might require moderation
>> -twitter - might there be a way to collect only the issues raised
>> everywhere? tagged by location, perhaps? could happen more places
>> cuz could send from cellphones?
>> -blog - could make a post or page for every event reported and then
>> let them post comments.
>> -just get everyone to start their own simple, free blog and use a
>> blog
>> aggregator... might miss a lot of sites.
>> -google docs?
>> -blog with a single "guest/contributor" username and password,
>> publicly posted, with user only allowed to post reports, tagging for
>> author and location within the post?
>>
>> ...this last option might be best, but then we get to the question of
>> what if it all really works and folks wanted to post some stream of
>> ongoing results and actions. could happen. so the system might want
>> to support that.
>>
>> anything else you can think of out there in social networking space
>> that could support such a thing?
>>
>> i think i like the twitter option, but have no idea if it can be made
>> to function in this way. could all of this be aimed at a single
>> twitter name, or just tagged with a single twitter tag? and somehow
>> captured in a way taht was searchable and scrollable long after the
>> first events occured?
>> then there's the scenario where somehow we get to hack up a new
>> version of the world map <grin>.
>> so that's as far as i can guess, and maybe even a little past
>> that. thoughts?
>> many thanks,
>>
>> m
>>
>> I read now that someone wrote in this thread "that NING does all
>> this" I should have brought forward these concerns then and
>> perhaps get movement going in an open direction. I am sorry i
>> didn't track that thread. When I popped up and made the preceding
>> comment I prefaced it saying I was in the middle of conference
>> season.
>>
>> You are all in luck. I just "finished" my unconference season and
>> have time to actually give to the communities I love and care about.
>>
>> I appreciate the care and attention that Artur Silva (Portugal),
>> Shufang Tsai (Taiwan) and Lisa Heft (USA) have put forward to do
>> this.
>>
>> I get that it was a utilitarian choice and was not informed by
>> deeper issues and values choices that are being made by using
>> closed source, proprietary and non-open standards based tools. It
>> was only done in love with the best intentions. I feel I have to
>> speak up because I am technologically literate particularly in
>> this area about openness and standards - it is where my core open
>> space facilitation work is - with communities developing an open
>> layer of the web that is social and community driven.
>>
>> I hope that I can work with others in the community who want to
>> make the most open choices possible and a collaborative on a
>> future looking online/tech strategy for the community.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -Kaliya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Lisa Heft
>> <lisaheft at openingspace.net> wrote:
>> Artur Silva (Portugal), Shufang Tsai (Taiwan) and Lisa Heft (USA)
>> welcome you to join us at the:
>>
>> Open Space World Community Ning site
>> A gathering place for sharing, learning, resources and community.
>>
>> -- create and host or join a regional group in your own language
>> -- see the photos of members - including your wonderful OSLIST
>> colleagues
>> -- post links to photos, videos, tweets or blogs
>> -- create calendar listings for your events
>> -- post and share resources
>> -- create or join a theme-based group about whatever you would like!
>> -- engage in live chat.
>>
>> This co-created Ning web portal for all things Open Space is a
>> compliment to the rich and welcoming dialogue of OSLIST and all
>> our web-based resources such as openspaceworld.org
>> It is free.
>> Come and co-create.
>> The seedling has sprouted - let us grow this lovely learning tree.
>> Jump right on - sign in - create your own page and begin.
>>
>>
>> (It is new...in its Beta stage...we are still trying out design
>> and functions...come visit us there, enjoy using it, share any
>> ideas for improvement you may recommend...there is even a 'Caring
>> for this Online Community' Group you can join...and if anything
>> does not work smoothly we will all learn and share how to fix it...)
>>
>>
>> Do join us in this nutritious and diverse community meeting place.
>>
>> http://openspaceworld.ning.com
>>
>>
>> We will continue our rich and vibrant dialogues here on OSLIST,
>> and we will see you also in the Open Space World Community Ning
>> site...
>>
>> Artur, Shufang and Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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