Bullying and OST

Thu Nov 5 07:33:43 PST 2009

Thank you Rose, Michael and others! Great thread and fabulous learning :-)

Esther Matte
Discover - Engage - Accomplish
www.excellence.ca
New York: 212-755-0551
Montreal: 450-583-5849

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael
Herman
Sent: 5 novembre 2009 10:23
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Bullying and OST

this is just so rich a question and situation.  thanks for bringing
it, rose.  i've read your message and the replies posted so far.  my
mind spins and i don't know where to begin because everything depends
on everything else.  that said, i'm sure there is a way through or
into open space.

when in doubt, i guess, start with the theme.  too abstract?  maybe.
too much a commentary on previous behavior?  a judgment real or
implied about the kids usually or often not being respectful?  maybe.
perhaps a bit ambiguous, about "getting along".  maybe not so
interesting, "what do we need to do" -- cuz maybe they already know
what they need to do.  but knowing i should or shouldn't is different
from actually wanting or being able to sustain that behavior.

more subtly still, i'm not sure i or the kids could tell any stories
from this theme, about when this was actually achieved... when we did
what we needed to respect and get along.  it's more like when these
things happened, *nothing* happened.  or better yet, *what* is it that
was happening in those times when we did mostly treat each other with
respect and did get along?   sometimes, no doubt, was when teachers
imposed it, but likely there would be some times, small groups or
short moments when something was happening that everybody wanted and
respect and gettign along were required to get it.  goes back to
harrison's oldest teaching to me... the answer to my very first
question, before i think i even knew who he was:  "what's working?
and how do we grow more of it?"

in fairbanks alaska, we did a program 2 days, 250 youth and adults,
with for the purpose of "becoming peacemakers."  in that case, there
had been a fair amount of prior learning about mediation and such.  so
this theme meant something positive to folks.  but the training isn't
the point.  it's that the theme was positive and pointed toward action
in a certain positive direction that everybody understood and valued.
and it was bigger than bullying, a common word for a common problem.
kids raised "peace in family" issues.  and "peace in self".  somewhere
in the intersection of those came a suicide topic.  then a sequel.
and two more.  by the end of four sessions they'd designed a whole
suicide prevention plan and curriculum, and about a week after the
open space they'd set up a statewide suicide hotline for youth.  we
followed the 2 days in OS with 2 days of OS training, for about 60
youth and adults.  six months later, julie smith, the lead convener of
everything there, reported here on the oslist that they were averaging
about 3 OS meetings (large and small) per week as a result of
everything that had happened.  here is a link to the invite...
http://www.michaelherman.com/cgi/wiki.cgi?FairbanksPeacemakersInvite
...and when you get there, you'll find a link to a page of "what
happened".

some noteworthy things from that event... there was a great debate
about "turning kids loose" in open space.  it was a big "walk the
talk" moment among educators who each decided for themselves whether
to bring their class to the event, or stay back at school in the
regular program.  there were some surprises among staff when some
opted out or opted in... when seeing directly which of their
colleagues trusted this way of learning and which didn't.

this was heightened when some kids spend the first day playing cards
up in a remote corner of the space.  we didn't organize a separate
option, but they opted out on their own.  tested our commitment to the
law of two feet and such.  and when they found out on the bus home
that they'd missed something interesting, most (if not all, i can't
recall perfectly) chose the next day to participate in the
conversations.  it wasn't easy to let them opt out and apparently
waste the first day, but as it turned out, it was necessary learning.
they came as fully voluntary and self-responsible particpants the
second day.

the theme is important in any os, and perhaps even more important with
young people.  perhaps because this line between concrete and abstract
is still new.  or because the line between imposed rule and
self-responsibility can be so well-enforced on most days.  takes some
extra effort to frame things in terms the kids will care about.  "what
could i learn if i wasn't in school all day?" is an amusing question
that comes to mind (which is different from it actually being useful,
other than to point to just one alternative spiriting of the thing).

it might be that the previous training was important in alaska.  or it
might be that it was simply the reason that the invitation made sense
to folks.  it might be that we had youth/adult mix at about 50-50,
that the adults impose some sort of order... but i think it was more
that the adults created some legitimacy for the theme, that their
attendance and participation made clear that this was grown up work
the kids were being allowed/invited into.  so it ought to be possible
in any other place and situation to name something of the common
experience of what's working and invite everyone, youth and adults
into the grown up work of growing more of it.

tricky, for sure, but then again what other alternative could there
possibly be?  a school could do a thousand other things, but how can
it ever succeed without eventually articulating some clear purpose
that students genuinely care about and inviting self-responsible
action toward that(those) end(s)?

m

--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates

http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org

312-280-7838 (mobile)

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Pat Black <patoitextiles at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Annamarie
> My experience working with children in OS is that the group functions just
> as it does with adults.  I've worked with kids as young as 8 and they were
> fine with some minor tweaks for the book of proceedings.  In my experience
> the issues that came up with Rose's group are not age related.  I have
been
> in adult groups where one or two provocateurs upset the groups they were
in
> in much the same way as occurred with the children.  Having said that I
did
> wonder about the impact of the principal setting the question as well.
 One
> of the things that came to my mind is that there are codes of conduct and
> respect inside cultures that are very violent.  Respect and violence are
not
> mutually exclusive.
> One of the things I've witnessed when there are provocateurs present is
when
> people start reacting to that behavior they often  go to the circle holder
> and ask for them to address (read stop) the behavior.  They need to be
> reminded to believe in the process and take themselves where they have
> passion and commitment.  Groups whether they are filled with adults or
> children can be very volatile  when they are in extreme reaction to some
> belief or experience.
> Pat Black
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 5:11 AM, Annamarie Pluhar
> <annamarie at pluharconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rose (Hi everyone - yes, I'm new to this list and it's been AGES since
>> I was actually in an OS.)
>> I lay in bed thinking about your question, not having read anyone's
>> responses yet.  I note that you say the butterflies were disruptive "even
>> though a drawing activity was available to them". Eh, what? I wonder how
>> truly open the space was to Harrison's point about unconscious
expectations.
>> I too wondered if the question was the right one for these
>> children. Hindsight being 20/20 maybe a learning is to engage a smaller
>> group of the intended participants in framing the question?
>> What I wanted to add to the conversation, and I'll be interested in
>> everyone's thoughts about this, is that the largest group in the OS was
>> children. Young people whose thinking is concrete operations, at least
>> according to Piaget.  Without looking it up I remember that key
>> characteristic of Concrete Operations is the rigidity about how games are
to
>> be played. The rules are inviolate. It is only in Abstract Reasoning -
teen
>> years - that the person is able to understand that a game are the rules
>> agreed to by those playing.  WIth such a large population of children the
>> abstract spirit of self-organizing may not have been the predominant
spirit.
>> Now, mind you, I'm not saying that children can't enjoy and participate
in
>> OS, I'm sure they can. I suspect that they need more of a model about
how-
>> concretely watching adults. It might have been that the balance was off.
>> What is the experience of others on this list?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Annamarie Pluhar
>> Pluhar Consulting
>> Results through effective group process
>> 802.451.1941
>> 802.579.5975 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Anglican Chaplain wrote:
>>
>> With 20/20 hindsight, I wonder if the question, “What do we need to do to
>> respect each other and get along?”  is/was the right question.
>>
>> As you say, Rose, it appears that students know (at a cognitive level)
>> what to do, but they don’t do it. Which might point to a much deeper
>> psycho/systemic/social set of forces (part of which Harrison alludes to).
I
>> really feel for these kids – it’s feels like they are trapped in a
nightmare
>> – like one of those dreams one can have, where you can see it all
unfolding
>> and you feel incapable to do anything about it.  Of course that is not an
>> ‘escape’ from everyone ultimately accepting their share of
responsibility,
>> but it suggests some broader questions to me about what kind of personal
>> ‘way of being’ might be nurtured, and what kind of environment might  be
>> imagined and co-created. I don’t want to sound trite. It sounds very
>> challenging.
>>
>> What might that broader systemic convening question be?  When it
>> doubt
open more space. Think creatively about who might make a
contribution
>> and specifically invite them. Was anyone and everyone able to come? I am
>> recalling Jamie Oliver’s work in the UK where they discovered a direct
link
>> between the food provided in the canteen and behaviour in the classroom.
>> That’s another example of looking at the whole system.  Don’t give up
hope.
>> Keep the conversations alive.
>>
>> Also, some places have benefitted from capacity building in non-violence
>> training (Rosenberg has done some great stuff on this).
>>
>> Michael Wood
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf
Of Harrison
>> Owen
>> Sent: Thursday, 5 November 2009 10:19 AM
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Bullying and OST
>>
>> Rose – Sounds like and interesting Go. For me OS is very much like the
>> Rorschach Test – What you see is what you got, and it sounds like the
>> teachers and Principal confirmed that. Not terribly far from a prison
camp
>> which is where many schools are. God forbid that the inmates should
become
>> too restless and then get out of control! So of course, the forces of
reason
>> and right will have to intervene (which they did) – thereby
substantiating
>> their prior convictions that these “students” were pretty much wild
savages
>> requiring a strong hand.  Was there an alternative? Probably and it
wouldn’t
>> have been pretty, but in my experience it usually (always) works. Open
more
>> Space and treat the students like responsible human beings. Expect the
best
>> and you might get there. I have worked with fighting street gangs, and
that
>> was always my approach. It did get a little exciting, but nobody ever
died.
>> In fact, very useful things always took place. Simple fact of the matter
is
>> that folks will live down to our expectations. That way they can avoid
>> responsibility for themselves and their actions. It is all OUR fault!
Then
>> we can feel guilty and do more of what we have always done (control,
heavy
>> hand, etc) and predictably get more of what we have always gotten which
then
>> justifies more of the same – and so on ad infinitum. Or something.
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Drive
>>
>> Potomac, Maryland   20854
>>
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> Skype hhowen
>>
>> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
>>
>> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
>>
>> Personal website www.ho-image.com
>>
>> OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
>> archives Visit:www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rose
>> Tassone
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Subject: Bullying and OST
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone. I’m wishing to share my experience of facilitating OST
for
>> the first time. It was held in a primary school in Perth,Western
Australia.
>> Surveys administered by the principal earlier in the year had parents and
>> students report that they were most concerned about bullying at this
school.
>> The principal identified the question “What do we need to do to respect
each
>> other and get along?’ 73 students, ages 8 to 12, 6 educators and 3
parents
>> accepted the invitation.
>>
>> This is what I observed during the OS event: A student was pushed out of
>> her group when she went to the breakout space even though she was the one
>> who had initiated the topic; students were physically fighting, pushing
each
>> other and name calling; students who were being butterflies chose to run
>> around, disrupt and tease those in the groups even though there was a
>> drawing activity available to them; the groups tended to compete with
each
>> other on how many pages they could fill with lists of dos and don’ts of
how
>> to treat each other.  The energy of the morning was one of palpable
violence
>> and two students were suspended.  Teachers who had been briefed by the
>> principal to allow chaos at the event, so that children could self
organise,
>> finally had to intervene because of duty of care issues.
>>
>> Looking through the Book of Proceedings the students appear to have all
>> the knowledge of how to respect each other and get along, though their
>> behaviour during the event did not depict this. At the debriefing the
>> principal mentioned that the behaviours that were shown are what normally
>> occur every day in the schoolyard as they self organise around individual
>> survival.  So it appears that the proverbial ‘Lucy’ is more than likely a
10
>> year old bully!
>>
>> I would really appreciate any comments and/or thoughts.
>>
>> Kindest regards
>> Rose Tassone
>>
>>
>> m:   (+61) 0408 944 072
>> e:    rosetassone at iinet.net.au
>> p:    po box 358 leederville wa 6903
>>
>>
>>
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