Wikipedia and Open Space...the beginning of something bigger?
Suzanne Daigle
sdaigle4 at comcast.net
Wed Nov 18 14:18:30 PST 2009
What a day! Lisa, Arthur, Shufang.amazing the places this has been taking
us in the on-going world-wide conversation about oslist and ning.
On another matter, Michael Herman today appealed to us for help on what he
called "tremendous editing" work required on the Wikipedia Open Space
description. I went to the Wiki website to see what was there. I cringed
when I saw the alerts at the top of the page: "reads like an
advertisement"; "blatant advertising" could lead to "speedy deletion";
"insufficient context"; "missing citations and footnotes" and requires
"clean-up to meet Wikipedia standards". I then started to dig deeper
through pages and pages to understand the Wikipedia standards, guidelines
and criteria. Part of me felt that if I was to help on this (along with
other OS folks hopefully?), I'd have to write and conform to a structure of
"predictability", "control", "data", "verifiability" and "neutral point of
view" that could miss the point of what Open Space is all about. The
Wikipedia focus seems to be much more on the objective than the subjective.
Out of curiosity, I checked other modalities like Appreciative Inquiry and
Future Search and saw some of the same alert messages there too. I then went
to Lean Manufacturing, and Six Sigma - no alerts! Interesting.
Somehow it felt that if I was tackling this (with others?), it would be like
describing Chinese medicine on the basis of evidence-based Western medicine?
I now understand what Michael said when he talked about the "tremendous"
editing not because what's there was poorly done but because of their
rigorous (and limiting?) criteria.
Or. perhaps there's another way of looking at it. Maybe the time has come
for a group of folks out there to take up the mainstream Wikipedia challenge
to further document this experiential "experiment" that Harrison challenges
us on in his latest book, Wave Rider. Who knows where it could lead?
Perhaps this documentation already exists and we could draw from it? It
appears there would be lots of "evidence" from the nearly 25 years, in 140+
countries, in (hundreds of thousands?) or (thousands and thousands?) of
situations, stories, learnings, etc.
With some trepidation, I'm putting this out there to the OS universe.
Certainly with my still limited experience in Open Space, don't think this
could be a solo initiative on my part. That being said, as we typically do
in Open Space, I'd like to post a topic "Wikipedia and Open Space". Anyone
want to join? Maybe we'll set up a room on the new Ning. My interest is
that I feel we are at a tipping point in the world with Open Space based on
the multiple system breakdowns everywhere. Lots of opportunity for
transformation and making a meaningful difference. Anyone want to join?
Suzanne
Suzanne Daigle
Managing Partner, US Operations
Tel: 941-359-8877
<mailto:sdaigle4 at comcast.net> sdaigle4 at comcast.net
nufocus
7159 Victoria Circle
University Park, FL
34201
Cell: 203-722-2009
Fax: 941-355-5484
www.nufocusstrategic.com
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael
Herman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:07 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: The new Ning community - some central questions
suzanne, what i'm suggesting (asking, really) is that the oslist (all of us,
myself included, who won't be, for the moment anyway, actively ninging)
could receive a daily digest of postings that happen at ning. if this was
workable, ning-ers would get full functionality of that space and go nuts
with it. and we only-oslist-ers could get a single daily email, so we could
listen in on what's developing.
this seems to serve many needs and interests, without drawing any hard
lines. it keeps everyone together, expanding without dividing. inviting
without imposing.
the big question is... what sort of output could be generated from ning,
directed to a (gmail?) account, or even an openspaceworld.org account, that
would simply forward it to the oslist for us.
hope this clarifies, suzanne.
and to holger, or lisa or artur or anybody else already on planet ning...
will they let you pump out some sort of daily email of what's happening
there?
m
--
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org
312-280-7838 (mobile)
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Suzanne Daigle <sdaigle4 at gmail.com> wrote:
Michael, For me, for now the oslist is the place that I still want to call
"home". It feels just right for its purpose -- a place to gain insights and
share happenings from a global community in the moment. Not too many
emails or at least I can easily skip and delete it off my blackberry knowing
it's waiting for me in my gmail inbox.
The new "ning" space of the Open Space community, of the Unleashing
Leadership event in Canada last week and the Taiwan OS event before that
are the places that I will want to visit occasionally to engage in more
intimate conversations on a specific topic perhaps, to see photos, to say hi
to people I know. In time, I may feel differently.
As you describe it below, is there a risk that I'd get tons more emails via
os list by adding Ning alerts? Or is what you describe below a decision
that I can choose to make on my own: keep oslist separate or combine it
myself with Ning?
Suzanne
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
wrote:
i am amazed and delighted to hear that ning has so many signing on so
quickly. earlier this morning i have added a link to the ning site from the
homepage of openspaceworld.org. when the announcement came out yesterday, i
blogged it at osw as well, but forgot to make the homepage link.
so to your question about oslist vs. ning discussion platform, holger...
here is how it might be accomplished... simply make one list a member of the
other. this does require making one primary to the other, because without
this decision the work around will cause permanently circular bouncing
replies. maybe 'primary' isn't quite right. it's really a question of
where the action will be and where the action will be also reported.
for instance, set up a gmail account that receives all the ning activity and
forwards it to the oslist, as a member of the list. oslist members would
then be able to see all of the postings, probably best in some sort of
digest form, at the new ning space. so you could use the ning space, but
report everything through gmail back to the list. this would, in effect,
create a running invitation to the ning group.
i'm not familiar with the mechanics of the ning platform, but obviously
there is more there than email list. it seems impractical to not use the
ning discussion tools in concert with whatever other tools are there. you
could use the same forwarding membership mechanism to report everything
happening on oslist to the ning group(s), but i think that doesn't work as
well. it doesn't make sense for oslist to be continually dangling that
invitation into the ning community. the direction of flow seems to be from
oslist to ning, opening into a bigger, fuller-featured space. google wave
might very well be the next opening after that, but ning is happening right
now.
so the key point seems to be that we can move into new spaces without
destroying or abandoning the old things that have served us so well, so far.
i will come back to this in the other thread, perhaps yet today. but for
now, i'd propose one way forward is to use all of ning and make oslist a
member so that the list collectively can see what is happening. running
this through a separate osw-ning at gmail.com email address would make ning
alerts easy to spot (to read or ignore) and a daily digest function seems
essential so as not to blow up the oslist.
m
--
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org
312-280-7838 (mobile)
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil <wendy at xe.net> wrote:
Hi friends,
I'm just starting to explore and learn Google Wave. I think there are a few
of you out there a bit ahead of me on the curve for that. Isn't integration
of these various info streams what it is designed to do? Once it's out of
beta, won't those who choose to use it be able to pull OSList, facebook,
twitter, ning, etc streams into one OS wave?
I support open source solutions in parallel with commercial solutions, and
also recognize that they take not only passion, but money, time, and
expertise as forms of responsibility in order to realize them. If this
conversation results in a group forming to create that for our community I
will gladly support it with my participation as that is the only form of
responsibility i currently have available to contribute.
Many communities are having this conversation. The explosion of social
media has created tremendous diversity and the potential that accompanies
that. The conversations over which tool, which platform, etc are raging all
over the place. What I see beginning to emerge is a recognition of the new
need to help users make the most of this diversity by creating tools that
allow for the integration and management of these diverse information flows
rather than the monopolization and control of them.
What has always mattered most to me about OSList and why i continue to read
and contribute as i can, is that it continues to be the most accessible
platform for a global audience. There are many out there who still don't
have the kind of connectivity and bandwidth that most of the new tools
require. It matters to me that some of the most vital conversations about
OS happen in a forum that the lowest tech amongst us can access. (And there
are a number of us out here who keep our own archival copies of everything
that happens here. So if the main archive was suddenly shut down, i'm sure
it wouldn't take us very long to stitch together a new one elsewhere.) I am
also aware of the fact that this conversation happens in English and of the
colonial history and privilege of that. So i support the emergence of an
online space where we can see conversations happening in other languages
simultaneously. The Ning platform appears to be doing that at this time, so
i feel glad in my heart to see that.
And please, while we have this conversation, would we keep our respect and
care for each other uppermost. I try to always envision us sitting in a
circle together in an OS space having these conversations. To hold each
precious presence with care matters to me. Whether i agree with you or not,
like you or not, have been hurt or harmed by you or not, is irrelevant. I
still hold each of you essential to our community. I support the call for
an end to personal attacks and a return to responsibly stated personal
contributions. Email can be a hard medium for passionate conversation. It's
easy to be misunderstood and misunderstand.
Love to all,
Wendy
On 18-Nov-09, at 1:54 AM, Holger Nauheimer (Change Facilitation) wrote:
It is really fascinating to see how quick the new Ning group is growing
(http://openspaceworld.ning.com/). I predict that in 2 weeks, we will have
like 200-300 members, and growing. In particular I like that we will have
country specific subgroups, and that might be the main focus of the Ning
group in the future. But it might also be that it will become the major
platform for our community.
However, the Ning group raises a central question: in case, the group will
convert into a major network platform for the OS community, what will happen
with the OS Mailing List?
As I have posted on the Ning today, I vote for maintaining this Listserv for
quite a while, and continuing to use this as the main discussion forum.
People got used to it, and in my experience, the OS folks are among the most
change resistant people that I have met in my life.
In order not to divide the stream of discussion, I am in favour not to have
a discussion feature at the Ning platform (or, only for the subgroups).
Otherwise, people will be quite confused on where to post.
I hope that in future all the national / language specific groups will move
to the Ning platform (however, in the German community there is some strong
resistance to that).
What I would love to see is an integration of this list with the Ning
platform. The ideal would be that one can post from here and it appears in
the Ning platform and the other way round. I am pretty sure that this is
technically feasible but I have no idea how. It seems that the Listserv does
not support RSS feeds (and I am not sure whether RSS feeds are the solution,
probably not).
If we would agree that integration is a good step, I would do some further
research and also engage a developer to help us out. Ideas?
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
CEO Prospera Consulting
wendy at xe.net
1-800-713-2351
The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
* * ==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
--
Suzanne Daigle
NuFocus Strategic Group
7159 Victoria Circle
University Park, FL 34201
FL 941-359-8877; CT 203-722-2009
www.nufocusgroup.com
s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
* * ==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
* * ==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20091118/de83b2d7/attachment-0015.htm>
More information about the OSList
mailing list