AW: Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
Harrison Owen
hhowen at verizon.net
Tue Jun 23 04:45:18 PDT 2009
Michael -- there is no accounting for Editors when they think they are
fixing broken English. And of course when you read your own material you see
what you thought you wrote -- regardless of what is on the printed page. :-(
So there it is. I guess we will just have to deal with the uncomfortable
serendipity of a self organizing world. A world that did not come together
the way it is supposed to! I will take it up with higher authority.
Harrison
Harrison Owen
189 Beaucaire Ave
Camden, ME 04843
207-763-3261 (Summer)
301-365-2093 (Winter)
Website www.openspaceworld.com
Personal Website www.ho-image.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael M
Pannwitz
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:57 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: AW: Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
I mostly call them "Tatsachen des Lebens" which translates pretty much
into "Facts of Life"...and usually embellish them with sayings that have
been around for a couple of hundreds of years showing that they are
commonly accepted Facts of Life. The addition to "Whatever happens is
the only thing that could have" in German is "Wenn der Hund nicht
geschissen haette, haette er den Has' gefangen."
What I really like is that most of us use the same wording as found in
the Users Guide...hearing them (or seeing them hung up spaced around the
circle of chairs) I instantly know its open space and feel comfortable
and excited.
There has been a ghastly attack, however, by some nincompoop editor of
"Wave Rider" on the wholy grail of the "principles". While on page 71
the "First Principle" is given correctly as "Whoever comes is the right
people", beginning with page 167 the wording of this principle (I will
not write down the wording here!!)has been horribly maimed.
Maybe its not too late to ask BK to immediately start a reprint with the
appropriate wording and to recall the entire first edition of Wave.
Greetings from Berlin
mmp
Catherine Pfaehler wrote:
> Here in Switzerland, if I didn't state the 4 principles (sometimes called
> "experiences" instead of "principles"), people wouldn't feel as free. The
> law alone is not strong enough in our context. I find the 4 liberating and
> fostering the acceptance of what IS.
>
>
>
> Heartfully, C.
>
>
>
> Catherine Pfaehler Senn
>
> lic.oec.HSG
>
> Open Space Begleitung
>
> St. Alban-Vorstadt 15
>
> CH - 4052 Basel
>
> +41-(0)76 - 488 15 46
>
> c.pfaehler at open-space-begleitung.ch
>
> www.open-space-begleitung.ch <http://www.open-space-begleitung.ch/>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Von: Artur Silva [mailto:arturfsilva at yahoo.com]
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2009 18:25
> Betreff: Re: Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>
>
>
>
> Larry:
>
>
>
> I am sorry but only today I had the time to answer you.
>
>
>
> We certainly need foundations or principles to Open Space.
>
>
>
> But I prefer the word "foundations" instead of "principles" because, due
to
> the man of the hat, this word is connected forever (only) with "the 4
> principles". And I think that that there are other principles
(foundations)
> as important as, or even more important than, the 4 so called principles.
>
>
>
> Indeed I think (sorry Harrison) that the expression "The 4 principles" was
> badly chosen.
>
>
>
> Because it they are "what always happens" they are not principles at all.
> And because we think that we must state the principles in the beginning of
> every session (I myself to that the majority o the times - but not
always")
> and I am more and more convinced that they are useless. You can state them
> or nor, and the same things will occur. They are probably "one less thing
to
> do/state".
>
>
>
> But there are other principles or foundations that are essential, in the
> sense that if they are not present different things will happen.
>
>
>
> In the discussion I opened in our wiki some years ago I proposed the
> following:
>
>
>
> 3. I would suggest, as HO wrote in the old User's Guide, that OST begins
> with:
>
> * A THEME that is compelling enough, but also general and open enough
> to let people dream about and
> * A GROUP OF COMMITED PEOPLE (reason for the presences to be almost
> always voluntary)
> * Enough DIVERSITY in the group
>
> 4. To those foundations one can add others that are generally accepted by
> all practitioners:
>
> * The CIRCLE (even if, in some cases, some argue that a "virtual
> circle" will do)
> * The Bulletin Board
> * The Market Place
> * The "law of two feet" (one of the most, if not the most important
> feature, from where butterflies and bumblebees "germinate" and many
> conflicts "evaporate")
> * The "four principles" (as I have promised ;-)
>
>
>
> ( <http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST>
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST)
>
>
>
> If I were to rewrite this today, I would surely suppress the last line.
But
> all the other "foundations" (including the law of two feet) are essential.
> If you suppress one of them you will have a meeting; but not, IMHO, an OST
> meeting. But we may not talk at all about the "4 principles" and
everything
> will happen as usual.
>
>
>
> Best regrsds to all
>
>
>
> Artur
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com>
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 5:22 PM
>
> Maybe a "foundation" is another word for how I often describe the
> "principles". I encourage people, when I open a space, to make some
> assumptions about the gathering to assume what are stated as principles
and
> to act on that basis during the event. I think these only become
"assumed"
> after some evolution of consciousness and I don't experience most folks in
> organizations being there. I think it is important to articulate them, to
> influence the "social construction" of the boundaries of the OST event
along
> with the most important part - the focus question or theme. Yep, it may
be
> a bit of ritualized behaviour but I think it helps increase the
> possibilities what will emerge in the self-organizing process that will
> happen anyway. Besides, I (we as facilitators) are one of the "selves" in
> the self-organization.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
>
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>
> larry at spiritedorg.com
> <http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spiritedorg.com>
> 416.653.4829 http://www.spiritedorg.com <http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Artur
> Silva
> Sent: May-27-09 5:54 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>
>
>
>
> Harrison, Larry and all:
>
>
>
> I am afraid that I continue to read only the messages from this list from
> time to time...
>
>
>
> Today, I read this answer from Harrison to a reply from Larry to an
original
> comment by Harrison. The 3 messages referred are listed below, and I ask
you
> to first read the parts of those messages that I have transformed in bold.
>
>
>
> (...) Thanks for having done that ;-)
>
>
>
> Now, I am happy that Harrison agrees that "the 4 principles and one law
are
> neither laws nor principles actually" and that there will come a day when
> The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of
"One
> more thing not to do."
>
>
>
> But Larry commented, very wisely as usual, about the importance of some
form
> of "boundaries" or "container" for self-organization.
>
>
>
> So, maybe it is the appropriate time to reintroduce a discussion that I
have
> tried to introduce many moons ago, about what are the foundations of OST.
>
>
>
> I mean,
>
>
>
> 1) if the principles are not "principles" after all, but only what always
> happens, and eventually even "one more thing not to do" (and I remember
you
> that I have done some OST experiments without reference to the Principles
-
> and all went well as usual), but
>
>
>
> 2) Some form of boundary or container is needed
>
>
>
> where this boundary or container does comes from?
>
>
>
> I have proposed to call that the "foundations" (not principles) of OST and
> proposed some ideas (that are only preliminary ideas) I would like to read
> (again) your opinions about.
>
>
>
> You can found my (preliminary) proposals, of some time ago, here
>
> <http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST>
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST
>
>
>
> and here
>
>
>
>
>
<http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3
> &X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com>
>
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&
> X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com.
>
>
>
> Looking forward to hear from you all
>
>
>
> Warn regards from a warm night in Lisbon
>
>
>
> Artur
>
>
>
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 7:23 AM
>
> Right on Larry - and I found a very curious and embarrassing typo in my
> small piece. I said, "They (the Principles and the Law) are descriptive as
> opposed to descriptive." I meant to say,"They are descriptive as opposed
to
> prescriptive." Point is neither the Law nor the Principles tell you what
to
> do - they simply alert everybody to what will be taking place no matter
> what. I think that is a useful function, but it really doesn't change a
> thing. In short - there will come a day when The Law and The Principles
can
> be assigned to that wonderful status of "One more thing not to do."
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Drive
>
> Potomac, Maryland 20854
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Skype hhowen
>
> Open Space Training <http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
www.openspaceworld.com
>
>
> Open Space Institute <http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
> www.openspaceworld.org
>
> Personal website <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com
>
> OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
> Visit: <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
> www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry
> Peterson
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:44 AM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Anti Laws of OST
>
>
>
> For me, there is more sense in the "Principles and Law" than non-sense.
> Stewart Kauffman explores the importance of some form of "boundaries" or
> "container" for self-organization, particularly that of cells. He
believes
> (with strong scientific evidence) that real physical work only gets done
> within some "boundaries" or it dissipates. Cells, he asserts, co-create
> their "boundaries" with their environment through self-organizing
> relationships in every moment. The boundaries are permeable, constructs,
> open to interchange with their environment. (No such thing as a closed
> system!)
>
>
>
> Harrison, I believe you have articulated a set of socially constructed
> permeable "boundaries" for enhancing human self-organization - including
the
> focus/theme, principles and law. These set a temporary set of
"boundaries"
> or a "container" both focused and open that change the perceived
conditions
> for self-organization at an event or meeting. Self-organization is
> happening all the time, in every moment. Our mental maps (in practice)
and
> feelings shape what we do as we self-organize - what topics we propose and
> who we connect to. Are they necessary for self-organization (Open Space)
-
> no, it is happening all the time as order emerges. Do they (or other
> similar statements about the social framework for our self-organizing)
help
> people to self-organize in exciting and creative ways? I think so.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
>
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>
> larry at spiritedorg.com
> <http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spiritedorg.com>
> 416.653.4829 http://www.spiritedorg.com <http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrison
> Owen
> Sent: May-25-09 2:59 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
>
>
>
> Just to render the whole thing non-sensical, the 4 principles and one law
> are neither laws nor principles actually. To be honest they are just my
(and
> others') observations of what seemed to be happening in any case. In a
word
> they are descriptive as opposed to descriptive - You could say it is all a
> joke. Rather like "technology" in the phrase Open Space Technology. The
> joke, however turned out to be outrageously funny - because somehow or
> another truth broke through. We are in serious trouble! Everybody knows
that
> what happens in Open Space simply can't happen. Unfortunately it does -
and
> that makes a joke out of a whole mess of other stuff - like most of what
we
> think we know about meetings, the management of meetings, and management
> itself. Double trouble!!
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Drive
>
> Potomac, Maryland 20854
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Skype hhowen
>
> Open Space Training <http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
www.openspaceworld.com
>
>
> Open Space Institute <http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
> www.openspaceworld.org
>
> Personal website <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com
>
> OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
> Visit: <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
> www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
> .org/oslist
>
>
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--
Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
++49-30-772 8000
mmpanne at boscop.org
www.boscop.org
Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 460 resident Open
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