FW: Creation

[douglas germann]

Hi friends--

Michael: I and Thou author Martin Buber is said to have translated this
opening verse: In beginning God.... Without "the" it turns the meaning
around, grabs our head and makes us look.

Tenneson: I also very much like the way William Blake had it--we are the
divine human. Sounds similar to what you were suggesting. This is
evocative for me...as is much of what you write.

			:- Doug.



On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 15:25 +0900, Michael Wood wrote:
> I'd echo what Doug has written and add...
> 
> The New Revised Standard Version of the Bible suggests several ways of
> translating into English the first few verses of Genesis: These could be
> 
> In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth (which NRSV
> prefers);
> 
> OR When God began to create(foot noted)
> 
> OR In the beginning God created (foot noted)
> 
> If the first translation is accepted, then creation happens out of "the
> formless void and deep" which seems to already exist.
> 
> This suggests to me that something which is not particularly
> differentiated gradually becoming differentiated into different forms.
> The new Biology (see Capra - The Hidden Connections - a science for
> sustainable living) suggests this is exactly what happens through the
> power of self organising systems. Where God is within that process is
> poetry!
> 
> I also like Sally McFague's (A New Climate for Theology) observation
> that the bible speaks in the language of metaphor and we need to
> remember that Metaphor is not the same as metaphysics. I think that
> scientists and theologians can have good conversations whilst also being
> clear what territory they are operating in.
> 
> If I get further onto theology I fear I'll be moving from the point of
> this list, but happy to continue the conversation to my email address.
> 
> Michael Wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
> douglas germann
> Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2009 1:41 AM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Creation
> 
> Ralph--
> 
> All of our human creation stories, or at least all of the 6 or 10 of
> them which I have read, start with something pre-existing: a god, a ball
> of mud, a turtle's back.
> 
> The Biblical story in my view is not antithetical to the Big Bang: Let
> there be light and there was light. What you hold in your mind when you
> read it affects directly what you get out of it-or put into it.
> 
> Stuart Kauffman has recently written a book which posits that God is not
> a being who creates but creativity itself. If he is correct, then that
> means that there is no difference between the Biblical notion of
> creation and self-organization.
> 
> (I think the concept of ex nihilo is not necessarily in Genesis.)
> 
> Ralph, thanks for this tickle.
> 
> 			:- Doug.
> 
> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 09:54 -0500, Ralph Copleman wrote:
> > If we say we live in a self-organizing universe, and if we also say  
> > there is no such thing as a non-self-organizing system, then where  
> > does that leave us with regard to the biblical creation story of the  
> > original seven days -- which seems to lay down holy word that it is  
> > possible create a comprehensive order out of nothing?
> > 
> > It's irrelevant that the biblical story may or may not be literally  
> > true.  We must recognize the impact this version of creation has had  
> > on our collective consciousness in the West, if not all over the  
> > world.  This model of order-out-of-chaos dominates most, if not all  
> > our modern institutions.  It lays the framework for how we see the  
> > world and how we seek to relate to it, its systems, and itc  
> > challenges.  It's the pattern for government, business, education,  
> > community development, religion, etc.  It even dictates how we shall  
> > relate to Earth itself.
> > 
> > When we ask people to accept the belief that there is no such thing as
> 
> > a non-self-organizing system, aren't we saying, "The story we have all
> 
> > lived by, whether we consciously realize it or not, is wrong,  
> > profoundly inaccurate, and dangerous"?
> > 
> > Ralph
> > 
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