A Common Consensus

Fri Aug 15 13:27:40 PDT 2008

Dear Bui, 

You propose the following definition:

"Consensus is a group decision - which some members may not feel is the best
decision but which they can all live with, support, and commit themselves to
not undermine - arrived at without voting, through a process whereby the
issues are fully aired, all members feel that they have been adequately
heard, in which everyone has equal power and responsibility, and different
degrees of influence by virtue of individual stubbornness or charisma are
avoided, so that all are satisfied with the process."

May I suggest a slight amendment, adding the two words 'with or', as
follows:

"Consensus is a group decision - which some members may not feel is the best
decision but which they can all live with, support, and commit themselves to
not undermine - arrived at with or without voting, through a process whereby
the issues are fully aired, all members feel that they have been adequately
heard, in which everyone has equal power and responsibility, and different
degrees of influence by virtue of individual stubbornness or charisma are
avoided, so that all are satisfied with the process."

And a voting process in which "everyone has equal power" is, may I further
suggest (as in my original splurb), a consensus vote, a multi-option
preference vote, a Modified Borda Count.

Just because some voting procedures are so dreadful - probably the worst is
the two-option majority vote - does not mean that all voting procedures are
bad.  

Peter

Peter Emerson

www.deborda.org

  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrison
Owen
Sent: 15 August 2008 20:30
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

I quite like what Scott Peck says, although when you read it, it sounds like
very hard work, something which can be achieved only occasionally and under
special circumstances. I wonder whether the truth is rather different.
Indeed I might suggest that the vast majority of decisions made in any group
or organization occur by consensus. There is no argument, no great
discussion, "it" whatever it was, just seemed like the right thing to do -
and that is what happened. Somewhere along the line we came to the notion
that decision is always a matter of formal action, constrained by rules and
procedure. This certainly seems to be the reality in a number of
organizations - which I find totally claustrophobic! Probably just me - but
my experience is that the essence of life is deciding. Most of the time it
just sort of flows. But there are certainly times when it gets bumpy and
hard and most usually that happens when I try to force things. Crazy?

Harrison 

Harrison Owen

189 Beaucaire Ave

Camden, ME 04843

207-763-3261 (Summer)

301-365-2093 (Winter)

Website www.openspaceworld.com 

Personal Website www.ho-image.com 

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  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bui
Petersen
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:46 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

I have been absent from this list for a rather long time. Life has
intervened again (I have just moved from Vancouver to St. John's,
Newfoundland) and kept me away from anything to do with Open Space. But the
discussion on consensus makes me come out from hiding.

Harrison, I agree with much of what you say. However, I think the difficulty
with any discussion on consensus is that everybody has a different
interpretation of what "consensus" means. The way I see it, consensus is not
something you come at easily. Reaching what I consider to be true consensus
requires a process that gives plenty of space for disagreements to be
voiced. If a solution can be found that everyone believes is the best  and
most reasonable (considering the alternatives), and that everyone is willing
to support, that could be considered consensus. It requires a lot of time
and effort and is not always practical or even desirable.

What irritates me the most is when people talk about consensus as if it only
means a strong majority, as in "8 out of 10 support this options; it looks
like we have consensus. A more common problem, however, is that people
suppress their disagreement in order to not be seen as "difficult".

The most thorough definition of consensus that I have come across is:

"Consensus is a group decision - which some members may not feel is the best
decision but which they can all live with, support, and commit themselves to
not undermine - arrived at without voting, through a process whereby the
issues are fully aired, all members feel that they have been adequately
heard, in which everyone has equal power and responsibility, and different
degrees of influence by virtue of individual stubbornness or charisma are
avoided, so that all are satisfied with the process. The process requires
the members to be emotionally present and engaged; frank in a loving,
mutually respectful manner; sensitive to each other; to be selfless,
dispassionate, and capable of emptying themselves; and possessing a
paradoxical awareness of both people and time, including knowing when the
solution is satisfactory, and that it is time to stop and not re-open the
discussion until such time that the group determines a need for revision."
[C 1988, Valley Diagnostic, Medical, and Surgical Clinic, Inc. of Harlingen,
Texas and the Foundation for Community Encouragement, Knoxville, Tennessee]
(as quoted by M. Scott Peck).

My two cents.

Bui

Harrison Owen wrote: 

Peter - Tyranny by the majority is certainly a downside of Democracy as
practiced in my country (USA). That said, it seems to me that there are
circumstances where it is the preferable alternative. The passage of the
Civil Rights Act here in the US was vociferously and often violently opposed
by a very vocal minority, however I would doubt that many black Americans
opposed the vigorous enforcement of that act, and fortunately (for the good
of the country) a majority of all Americans, regardless of hue, were in
agreement. 

Consensus politics has much to commend it, but it too has its downsides.
Resolution at the lowest common denominator is one such, which often appears
to be no resolution at all. Alternatively, the whole system may simply
become paralyzed. At such times, I for one find myself longing for a
straight up or down vote. There is also such a thing a Tyranny of Consensus,
I think. 

Perhaps it is useful to think in terms of both/and as opposed to either/or?
For example, Majority Rule, as in the case of the Civil Rights act, was
possible only because of a prior consensus in the American Population that
the Rule of Law was to be preferred even if you were on the wrong side of
the Law.

I suspect that the situation is infinitely more complicated than the simple
alternative (Consensus/Majority Rule). My learning has been that our
capacity to design and implement effective systems of all sorts (political,
corporate, etc) is limited at best. We simply cannot comprehend the infinite
complexity and random occurrences (essential chaos), characteristic of all
living systems. Our solutions are always approximations, and try as we
might, we will never get it "right" - and for sure we will never be in
control.  This doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying, but I think it is
essential that we understand the true status of our creations - they are
maps, and never to be confused with the territory. Like all maps, some are
better than others, and as conditions change these maps become more or less
relevant/accurate.

We really get in trouble when we decide that there is "One Right Way." This
effectively limits our options and reduces the living space (open space).
Pushed to extremes the system will die - which is the end state of all
systems, regardless. When you run out of space/time you run out of life.
Fortunately our maps do not create the systems, and our systems are
infinitely more robust than our designs could ever be. Are they perfect? No.
They are always on the way to something new. And if they ever get "there"
that will be the end, I think.

Harrison

Harrison Owen

189 Beaucaire Ave

Camden, ME 04843

207-763-3261 (Summer)

301-365-2093 (Winter)

Website www.openspaceworld.com 

Personal Website www.ho-image.com 

OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
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  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter
Emerson
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:21 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

Dear Jack, 

They key, then, is to ask these folks, do they believe in democracy?  Yes?
Oh jolly good.  And do they believe democracy is for everybody, or just a
majority?  And if they agree to the former, away you go.

Mediation works only when the parties to the dispute agree to it.  Democracy
should work for all democrats.  Russians and Georgians claim the adjective.
But the idea that a majority can determine the fate of an unwilling minority
should be abhorrent. to both.  

Cheers, 

Peter

Peter Emerson

Director, The de Borda Institute

36 Ballysillan Road

Belfast BT14 7QQ

028 90 711795

078 377 17979

pemerson at deborda.org

www.deborda.org

The Borda count "is the best protection ever devised from the tyranny of the
majority."  Professor Sir Michael Dummett.

  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jack
Martin Leith
Sent: 14 August 
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: A Common Consensus

Peter,

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain the method in so much detail. I've
turned your post into a Word document and filed it under Decision Making
Methods for future reference.

The challenge is getting people's agreement to use the method.

Catch-22!

Warm wishes,

Jack 

Jack Martin Leith
Now-to-New activist
Bristol, United Kingdom
Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)
Skype: jackmartinleith
email: jack at jackmartinleith.com
www.jackmartinleith.com

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