Barack Obama team using OS. How about that?
douglas germann
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Wed Aug 13 19:09:16 PDT 2008
Pat--
Thanks! I knew you were involved in some of these things, but did not
know what or to what extent. Good to know more about you!
:- Doug.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:41 -0500, Pat Black wrote:
>
> I can't tell you why movements or processes get co-opted but they do
> including OST. I know about Alinsky from working in the anti-war,
> freeze and environmental campaigns in the 60's and 70's. I worked
> inside of the communities that I lived and only went outside that
> community to work as a support when requested to other campaigns or to
> blockade trains, boats or trucks carrying nuclear materials. When
> working with the farm workers it was as support not as planners that
> happened from inside and when blockading there was always a lot of
> door knocking in the community to let them what was going to happen
> and why and inquires into what issues that might pose for community
> members. I have never read any of Alinsky's work. My knowledge of
> him and his philosophies is second hand from what I called at the time
> "Arm chair revolutionaries". I would say now they were probably
> academics or at least people with a much higher education than I did
> at the time. At any rate what I know in my head is exactly as Kerry
> described and my on the ground experience was as I described, we did
> not have outside experts come in and tell us what the issues were and
> how to deal with them. We made those assessments ourselves. When
> trying to stop the building of a nuclear power plant in Missouri at
> the time I made my home there I do remember bringing in dairy farmer
> from Harrisburg PA. you remember Harrisburg, to talk to cattle
> farmers in Missouri about what happened to their stock after they
> built the plant in Harrisburg. That's as expert witness as it got in
> my experience. The early superfund sites like Love CAnal and Times
> Beach were all driven by the community members trying to get on
> someone's radar screen as their loved ones started to die from the
> effects.
> Pat
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:07 PM, douglas germann
> <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> Pat and Kerry--
>
> I have read two of Alinsky's books and found them fun and
> informative. I
> like the way both of you describe how Alinsky worked.
>
> Yet the things I have seen and heard from people who come out
> of the
> Industrial Areas Foundation seem somehow at odds with the
> picture you
> paint. One was a speaker out of Texas who got her issues from
> the
> established leadership of churches and other groups in the
> community. It
> was central to her way of organizing. There was very little
> said about
> involving the rank and file, the grass roots "little" people.
>
> The second experience I have had is with a local group who do
> use, I am
> told, a lot of interviewing of people to find the issues. But
> then their
> "meetings" are dominated with inviting, say, the school
> superintendent
> to the front of the group, reading a list of demands, and
> exact his or
> her signature to an agreement to meet those demands. Seems a
> little ways
> from self organization if you consider the superintendent to
> be a member
> of the community.
>
> So can you give me some idea of how the Alinsky model has gone
> from
> coming from "inside the community" to working outside of self
> organizing? (Realizing that Alinsky was just a little
> iconoclastic.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> :- Doug.
>
>
> On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 10:53 -0500, Pat Black wrote:
> > Pavel
> > Obama comes from the Saul Alinsky school of organizing.
> Alinsky
> > worked with the stockyard workers in Chicago in I think the
> 1930's or
> > 1940's. His model is one that believes that change is
> defined and
> > comes from inside the community.
> > Many grassroots movements in the United States in the 60's
> and 70's,
> > especially the anti-nuclear movement were modeled after his
> > experiences. Clinton also studied Alinsky but unlike Obama
> who was an
> > Alinsky style organizer Clinton believed that you could
> change the
> > system from within its bowels. Obama follows the Alinsky
> model and
> > allows the community itself to form the agenda and provide
> the
> > expertise.
> > Pat Black
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Pavel Tsarkov
> <ptsarkov at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > I knew, that it will be the answer, Michael. It is
> not OS, of
> > course. But here they trying to do smth different
> from others,
> > they want to hear people, instead of saying them
> what to do,
> > that s what I m trying to say)). May be someone from
> US can
> > offer to provide OS for this election campaighn.
> > We used OS for election campaighns several times in
> Russia,
> > and it was always very usefull...for candidates, for
> partyes,
> > for comunity.
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > Yours sincerely,
> > Pavel Tsarkov
> > Business Open Space Communication Agency
> > Managing Director
> >
> > Mob.+7-926-296-62-74
> > Website: www.jordantravel.ru
> > Skype: pavel_tsarkov
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:20:10 +0200
> > > From: mmpanne at boscop.org
> > > Subject: Re: Barack Obama team using OS. How about
> that?
> > > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > >
> > > Dear Pavel,
> > > where do you see the Open Space events ?
> > > Greetings from Berlin
> > > mmp
> > >
> > > Pavel Tsarkov wrote:
> > > > Hi everyone,Just before coming to Russia next
> day from New
> > York, decided to look at Barack Obama web-site. His
> team using
> > OS. Who is facilitator?)))Thats the text from there:
> > > > Colorado: Solutions for America
> > > > by State NewsMonday, August 11, 2008 at 12:37 AM
> > > >>From Jenn Prosser, on the ground in
> Colorado . . . From
> > his days as a community organizer on, Barack has
> strongly
> > believed that the best policies come from the people
> -- their
> > experiences, stories and ideas can shape the most
> efficient
> > solutions for our country. In the spirit of this
> philosophy,
> > the Colorado Campaign for Change has organized a
> series of
> > Solutions for Colorado forums that will be going on
> across the
> > state from now through October.
> > > > The first event was in Pueblo, where Rep. John
> Salazar
> > joined National Deputy Policy Director Carlos Monje
> and
> > Colorado Policy Director Joy Silvern to talk about
> the
> > economy.The room was packed with nearly 200 people
> from Pueblo
> > and the surrounding area. Rep. Salazar spoke to the
> group
> > about the economic problems he's seen in the past
> eight years,
> > from the huge rise in diesel costs to the
> sky-rocketing
> > national debt....Link:
> >
> http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog#topYours
> > sincerely,Pavel TsarkovBusiness Open Space
> Communication
> > AgencyManaging DirectorMob.+7-926-296-62-74Website:
> > www.jordantravel.ru Skype: pavel_tsarkov
> > > >
> >
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