conversation styles ... was: the circle space of OSlist

Mon Aug 27 21:13:25 PDT 2007

Hi Deb,

I'm sure there is just oodles of wisdom for your questions on the list.

As for other ways of participating in such forums-

Perhaps the OSlist is a model for inviting open, authentic conversation. And
perhaps in the implicit (and explicit?) invitation to bring any and/or all
of ourselves to the OSlist I always hunger for an even richer conversation.
So, offhand, I don't know of any other ways of (constructive) participating.

As for making room for the "messier" stuff that life is made of-- part of it
is asking the tough, wicked questions from a (occasionally, unfortunately)
humble place, appreciatively, and with curiousity, and without judgement
(sound like the unwritten OSlist rules? : )) ) And if I have judgement, to
name it.

And also to bring the whole self, courage has the French word "coeur"
(heart) in it, after all!

Humility - not the feigned/polite variety- goes a long way for sure. Will
chew on your queries some more.

Not sure any of this is anything new, though!

warmly,
raffi

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:28:44 -0400
Reply-To: deborah at hartmann.net
Sender: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Deborah Hartmann <deborah at hartmann.net>
Subject: Re: conversation styles ... was: the circle space of OSlist
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200708272004525071.02C0 at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

Raffi. Thanks for your observations and comments. Having lived mainly in one
small section of North America, I am fascinated by your observations about >
the occasional North American polite tone on the > list and how this tended
to disinvite deeper, more > authentic conversation. Of course, to me, this
has been quite invisible, as "it's the way we do things here" :-) But I do
recognize what you are talking about. So, could you help me understand some
different ways people have of conversing on forums like this? I am
interested, as I am sure it could help me work with my international
colleagues better. Now that I'm a freelancer, so many of my relationships
have a significant online aspect! For example, though Lisa Heft and I have
not met in person (yet!) we definitely have a working relationship. But we
are both North Americans. What can we North Americans do to make people from
European or other cultures feel more welcome? Do you have suggestions? Or,
more to the point you made: how can we make room for the "messier" stuff
that life is also made up of? :-) deb

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist

>From  Tue Aug 28 11:14:00 2007
Message-Id: <TUE.28.AUG.2007.111400.0200.>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:14:00 +0200
Reply-To: c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Catherine Pfaehler <c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch>
Organization: Catherine Pfaehler
Subject: AW: Circles and open space
X-To: Wendy Farmer-O'Neil <wendy at xe.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0310_01C7E964.99E96640"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0310_01C7E964.99E96640
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ah, Wendy, your message strikes a string in my heart. I find myself having
this huge resistance to other methods and the amount of left brain work it
takes from the facilitator, e.g. in World Café, to find out the right
questions, even if it’s together with the sponsor. What a responsibility!
Plus a resistance to standing there with a stop watch and time the time for
conversations for everybody… There is a knowing inside me that OST can do
the job in all circumstances - if we take enough time to get ready, and to
formulate the theme the way the organization feels it needs to be stated.
Something inside me refuses to “go complicated”, knowing and living with OST
for almost 20 years now. AND this can be really difficult when somebody
isn’t ready, but wants to work with me because they have heard good things
about an OS-event I have facilitated… Perhaps I need to learn to say no to
such an organisation.

These are the main questions I am pondering these days. Perhaps I will find
a way to bring good examples on my website which can help deal with some of
the fears.

Thank you - Catherine

Catherine Pfaehler Senn

lic.oec.HSG

Open Space Begleitung

Kellersriedweg 8

CH - 2503 Biel

+41-(0)32 - 365 68 41

c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch

  _____  

Von: Wendy Farmer-O'Neil [mailto:wendy at xe.net] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. August 2007 08:36
Betreff: Circles and open space

Thank you all for this wonderful conversation. What is arising for me as I
sit with your questions and comments, is that underlying all of our
passionate choices is the intention of opening more space wherever we are.
I know that is always my intention and I trust and have faith that it is
yours also.  

Sometimes this opening of space looks like world café or appreciative
inquiry, because that’s the widest, edgiest space that the sponsor can
conceive of.  Sometimes it’s a progression of ever more open processes until
the group trusts me and itself enough to leap into OST (I’m always humbled
and blown away by leaders who move through huge fear and/or organizational
resistance and say “Go for it!”).  And sometimes it means holding the open
space event in my heart and keeping that space open for months or years
until the sponsoring group wants OST.  All of the time, however, I am
fostering a deeper understanding and familiarity with OS principles and
practices and demonstrating the benefits.  

And I have had plenty of resistance to the circle.  I work a lot with social
service agencies and when they walk into a room set up in a circle, they
don’t look surprised, they roll their eyes and say, “Oh no! Not another
process!  What are you going to do to us?”  And at the end of the day they
thank me for NOT doing anything to them.  ARGGGHHHH!   Hence the reason for
my conviction that OS is one of the only truly ethical processes around—it
doesn’t steal power from people.  It’s not about me, the Grand
Facilitator!!! Thank God/dess/Spirit/your word here!

So, thank you Kaliya, for sharing how you have grown and fostered open space
practice in your community—I resonate with your pragmatism.  Your approach
is not something I had considered before and it has helped me to stretch my
thinking.  You obviously had a determination to introduce your community to
the benefits of OS and you made the principles and practices work for you
rather than becoming a servant to the technicalities of the process itself.
It’s really invigorating to encounter someone who has chosen to make
positive use out of circumstances that most of us view as a challenge.  As
Harrison keeps reminding us—it always works—and your experience widens the
horizon of what that means. 

And isn’t one definition of mastery: knowing when to break the rules? ;-)

The question I’ll be sitting with now is:  If the artist’s/host’s presence
is embodying the essence of OS, what is the minimum of form required for it
to still work? 

Cheers,

Wendy

Wendy Farmer-O'Neil

Prospera Communications & Consulting Services

250.713.2351/1.800.713.2351

weblog: www.wordgravity.blogspot.com

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/966 - Release Date: 8/22/2007
9:05 AM

* * ==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ----------------------------- To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist

------=_NextPart_000_0310_01C7E964.99E96640
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
 namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
 /* Font Definitions */
 @font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
	panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Georgia;
	panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.E-MailFormatvorlage17
	{mso-style-type:personal;
	font-family:Georgia;
	color:windowtext;
	font-weight:normal;
	font-style:normal;
	text-decoration:none none;}
span.E-MailFormatvorlage18
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
@page Section1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>

</head>

<body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple>

<div class=Section1>

Ah, Wendy, your message
strikes a string in my heart. I find myself having this huge resistance to
other methods and the amount of left brain work it takes from the facilitator,
e.g. in World Café, to find out the right questions, even if it’s
together with the sponsor. What a responsibility! Plus a resistance to standing
there with a stop watch and time the time for conversations for everybody…
There is a knowing inside me that OST can do the job in all circumstances - if
we take enough time to get ready, and to formulate the theme the way the
organization feels it needs to be stated. Something inside me refuses to “go
complicated”, knowing and living with OST for almost 20 years now. AND
this can be really difficult when somebody isn’t ready, but wants to work
with me because they have heard good things about an OS-event I have
facilitated… Perhaps I need to learn to say no to such an organisation.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

These are the main questions
I am pondering these days. Perhaps I will find a way to bring good examples on
my website which can help deal with some of the fears.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thank you - Catherine<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=2 color=navy
 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
 color:navy'>Catherine Pfaehler</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=2
color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'> Senn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>lic.oec.HSG<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Open Space
Begleitung<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Kellersriedweg
8<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>CH - 2503 Biel<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>+41-(0)32 - 365
68 41<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

</span></font></div>

Von: Wendy
Farmer-O'Neil [mailto:wendy at xe.net] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. August
2007 08:36 
Betreff: Circles and open space<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

Thank you all for this wonderful conversation. What
is arising for me as I sit with your questions and comments, is that underlying
all of our passionate choices is the intention of opening more space wherever
we are.  I know that is always my intention and I trust and have faith
that it is yours also.  <o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

Sometimes this opening of space looks like world
café or appreciative inquiry, because that’s the widest, edgiest space
that the sponsor can conceive of.  Sometimes it’s a progression of
ever more open processes until the group trusts me and itself enough to leap
into OST (I’m always humbled and blown away by leaders who move through
huge fear and/or organizational resistance and say “Go for
it!”).  And sometimes it means holding the open space event in my
heart and keeping that space open for months or years until the sponsoring
group wants OST.  All of the time, however, I am fostering a deeper
understanding and familiarity with OS principles and practices and
demonstrating the benefits.  <o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

And I have had plenty of resistance to the
circle.  I work a lot with social service agencies and when they walk into
a room set up in a circle, they don’t look surprised, they roll their
eyes and say, “Oh no! Not another process!  What are you going to do
to us?”  And at the end of the day they thank me for NOT doing
anything to them.  ARGGGHHHH!   Hence the reason for my
conviction that OS is one of the only truly ethical processes around—it
doesn’t steal power from people.  It’s not about me, the Grand
Facilitator!!! Thank God/dess/Spirit/your word here!<o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

So, thank you Kaliya, for sharing how you have
grown and fostered open space practice in your community—I resonate with
your pragmatism.  Your approach is not something I had considered before
and it has helped me to stretch my thinking.  You obviously had a
determination to introduce your community to the benefits of OS and you made
the principles and practices work for you rather than becoming a servant to the
technicalities of the process itself.   It’s really
invigorating to encounter someone who has chosen to make positive use out of
circumstances that most of us view as a challenge.  As <st1:place w:st="on">Harrison</st1:place>
keeps reminding us—it always works—and your experience widens the
horizon of what that means. <o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

And isn’t one definition of mastery: knowing
when to break the rules? ;-)<o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

The question I’ll be sitting with now
is:  If the artist’s/host’s presence is embodying the essence
of OS, what is the minimum of form required for it to still work? <o:p></o:p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Wendy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Wendy Farmer-O'Neil</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Prospera Communications & Consulting Services</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>250.713.2351/1.800.713.2351</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>weblog: www.wordgravity.blogspot.com</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/966 - Release Date: 8/22/2007 9:05 AM<BR>
</FONT> </P>
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
 -----------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
------=_NextPart_000_0310_01C7E964.99E96640--