AW: climate-neutral flights and drives!

Catherine Pfaehler c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
Sat Apr 14 13:17:23 PDT 2007


Another fact we are not yet commonly aware of is that in eating meat, we
contribute as much to greenhouse gas production as in driving and flying.
Much to my surprise, I came across some numbers recently which clearly
showed that cattle raising (and cutting down rain forests for soy
plantations to feed them) is just as damaging to the planet as everything
polluting we’re already aware of. 

 

Now this might be difficult for many. What you eat is even closer to you
than your car, and changing eating habits can mean losing quite some pieces
of your family tradition – even more so when you start moving from
vegetarian to vegan (that’s where I’m standing at the moment). Al Gore
doesn’t include these facts in his excellent movie, unfortunately.

 

This discussion also makes me aware – and grateful! – of how well off we are
in Europe with our excellent public transport systems and relatively small
distances
 including safe bicycle riding possibilities everywhere and great,
safe bike parkings inside train stations. Plus the superb car sharing system
in Switzerland, www.mobility.ch <http://www.mobility.ch/> , for the rare
occasions where a car IS necessary.

 

Great sharings, thank you, everybody! Love, Catherine

 

Catherine Pfaehler Senn

lic.oec.HSG

Open Space Begleitung

Kellersriedweg 8

CH - 2503 Biel

+41-(0)32 - 365 68 41

c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch

 

  _____  

Von: cliodhna mulhern [mailto:cliodhna at flowstone.org.uk] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. April 2007 12:19
Betreff: Re: AW: climate-neutral flights and drives!

 

Dear Michael

Thanks a million for your wisdom on this hugely important issue.  I was
greatly impressed at how boscop took every opportunity to make the recent OS
training in Berlin as environmentally friendly as possible. You showed real
commitment and leadership on this issue and I for one, was inspired by your
example. 

I have come to understand that the big challenge for me (and it is a
challenge) is to find a way to live all aspects of my life locally...that
means not travelling so much for work...Just now I travel between Ireland
and England regularly and although I shifted to travel by ferry (rather than
flying) about a year ago, it is still unnecessarily damaging to the
environment and I have to take responsibility for that. Your strategy of
training osnicks to do work in far off places so as to reduce your need to
travel is a perfect example of a sustainable strategy...I need to redouble
my own efforts to find my own sustainable living strategy

There is no way around this...we have to face the fact that the majority of
CO2 emmissions come from our buildings (homes and workplaces) and our
travel...unless we do something about these there is little point in doing
the smaller things. This is not a time for small measures alone...that's how
I see it. 

Cliodhna Mulhern 
flowstone 
+44(0)7929 328513 

"All meaningful and lasting change starts first in your imagination and then
works its way out. Imagination is more important than knowledge. " 
Albert Einstein 

On Thu Apr 12 20:48 , Michael M Pannwitz sent:

Dear Chris,
one of a number of pretty impressive ways to make a contribution for 
less CO2 is to reduce travelling (car, plane, et.). One of the proven 
and impressive ways for osnicks like me is to travel to other countries 
primarily in the role as trainer of other osnicks. An example is 
Ukraine. Jo and I went there and were involved in training some 50 
colleagues who are now actively facilitating os events in Ukraine (have 
a look at the world map and the worldscape). And eventually will conduct 
their own trainings there. Same was true for Hungary, Denmark, Russia, 
Pakistan and the many other places many of us went to train colleagues 
to never or rarely go there again just as facilitators.
These days (which is different from lets say 5 or 8 years ago)the 
need/urge/necessity/excuse/etc. for me to go to far off places is 
increasingly deminishing since osnicks are showing up all over the 
place. I still enjoy travelling, mind you, and am envious when I see 
where some of us are going to all the time. But when I take a closer 
look, I increasingly wonder why I or others go to far off places where 
there are osnicks, maybe not in huge numbers maybe, but certainly 
capable to do the job locally. We might enjoy honoring that and work 
less all to further sustainability and the spread of os.
One neat tool to use next time one of us gets a call is to look at the 
open space world map and have a look-see who is closer by.
Of course, this discussion re-opens the window on the future of WOSonOS.
Gads, I love those gatherings!!! One less thing to do? Having more 
local, citywide, national, regional Open Spaces on Open Space?
At the same time people are booking million dollars/ million tons of CO2 
flights into outer space and soon to the moon and back.
Greetings from Berlin where my family encourages me to walk to the 
bakery or to take the bike and we are discussing the need of a car in a 
city like Berlin where in fact you can get any place by public 
transportation and mostly even faster and certainly safer than by car
mmp
Here the link to the world map
>
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworldmap.or
g%2F> http://www.openspaceworldmap.org/

and the worldscape
>
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworldscape.
org%2F> http://www.openspaceworldscape.org/




Chris Corrigan wrote:
> This is an interesting conversation froma number of perspectives. I am 
> currently looking at ways to make my business as green as we can get it 
> and purchasing carbon offsets is on my mind. I travel A LOT and a lot 
> of it is by air, so I'm pretty aware of how much carbon is being 
> consumed to move my body around the world. 
> 
> My current thinking is that there are more tangible and real ways of 
> bringing a sustainability consciousness to my work and investing money 
> to support that. I agree with Monbiot that purchasing carbon credits 
> without also having a sustainability consciousness isn't really the 
> shift that is needed. For me. it is a far more productive practice to 
> find ways to make Open Space meetings less dependant on non renewable 
> resources, offering good local or organic food where we can and 
> minimizing the amount of paper we use. Doing that is tangible because 
> it is action that proceeds from the consciousness we are talking about 
> AND is actually makes a difference. Unlike Open Space meetings, planes 
> fly anyway, and to some extent, it feels like I am hopping a ride on an 
> already scheduled carbon event. If I pay more attention to the small 
> choices that I make in everyday practice, ironically it has a bigger 
> impact. It;s about bringin presence and mindfulness to the work.
> 
> Not to say that purchasing carbon credits is a bad idea, it's just that 
> I'm looking at it from the perspective of spending money. If I am going 
> to put my money where my mouth is regarding climate change, I am leaning 
> towards investing that money in local economy, with local businesses who 
> are operating sustainably too. I am a member of the Business Alliance 
> for Local Living Economy, which is a North America wide network of local 
> business hubs focussed on sustainability and thriving local economies. 
> Supporting other businesses in our network is a useful and tangible step.
> 
> It's an interesting thing to be thinking about. The challenge for me, 
> from an Open Space perspective, is how to marry passion and 
> responsibility to bring about the changes I want to see. A vibrant 
> local economy with supplies purchased not from Staples and other big box 
> office supply stores but from my friend down the road who runs 
> Frogfile.ca <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2FFrogfile.ca%3E>
http://Frogfile.ca> is a more tangible way of doing it for 
> me. 
> 
> Thanks for the carbon credit links though...definitely putting it in my 
> mix.. 
> 
> Chris
> 
> On 4/12/07, *cliodhna mulhern* <cliodhna at flowstone.org.uk
<javascript:top.opencompose('cliodhna at flowstone.org.uk','','','')>  
> <cliodhna at flowstone.org.uk <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">cliodhna at flowstone.org.uk
<javascript:top.opencompose('cliodhna at flowstone.org.uk','','','')> >> wrote:
> 
> To quote wikipedia which highlights the views of a fellow Oxford
> resident - George Monbiot:
> 
> "Many environmentalists disagree with the principle of carbon offsets.
> George Monbiot , an English environmentalist and
> writer, has compared carbon offsets to the practice of purchasing
> Indulgences during the Middle Ages, whereby people
> with money could purchase forgiveness for their sins (instead of
> actually repenting and not sinning anymore). Monbiot also says that
> carbon offsets are an excuse for business as usual with regards to
> pollution. To date, no authoritative studies have been
> performed concerning offset buyers' behavior (e.g., whether they take
> other measures to reduce their CO_2 output.)"
> 
>
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%
2FCarbon_offset> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Jon and thank you for this posting. I think George Monbiot's
> thoughts give us a helpful nudge to be realistic about the
> limitations of carbon offsetting as a strategy while embracing the
> motivation behind it...it is really great that there is such a surge
> of self-awareness in travel planning and I take my hat off to
> everyone who is thinking twice about how to get from A to B...
> 
> From the (unusually) sunny Faughan Valley in North West Ireland.
> 
> Cliodhna Mulhern
> flowstone
> +44(0)7929 328513
> 
> "All meaningful and lasting change starts first in your imagination
> and then works its way out. Imagination is more important than
> knowledge. "
> Albert Einstein
> 
> *On Wed Apr 11 23:50 , Jon Harvey sent:
> 
> *
> 
> Catherine
> 
> No - I did not think your posting was a hoax. My response was
> whimsical
> (perhaps to lighten the mood a little on this listserv at the
> moment...
> the website I recommended - which I parenthesised - is a real spoof
> website that is quite funny).
> 
> But I do think there is a serious point here as well (which lies
> behind
> the spoof website too) as to whether carbon offsetting is an
> effective
> response to global warming.
> 
> To quote wikipedia which highlights the views of a fellow Oxford
> resident - George Monbiot:
> 
> "Many environmentalists disagree with the principle of carbon
> offsets.
> George Monbiot , an English environmentalist and
> writer, has compared carbon offsets to the practice of purchasing
> Indulgences during the Middle Ages, whereby people
> 
> with money could purchase forgiveness for their sins (instead of
> actually repenting and not sinning anymore). Monbiot also says that
> carbon offsets are an excuse for business as usual with regards to
> pollution.^[15] <#_note-7> To date, no authoritative studies
> have been
> performed concerning offset buyers' behavior (e.g., whether they
> take
> other measures to reduce their CO_2 output.)"
> 
>
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%
2FCarbon_offset> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fparse.pl%3Fredirect%3Dht
tp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FCarbon_offset>
http://parse.pl\?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCarbon_offs
et>
> 
> I do have some sympathies with his point of view. And I do
> appreciate
> your commitment to using trains. This is a complex area of
> ethics and I
> am still working out my own standards.
> 
> Hope this helps and keeps the space open..
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> Catherine Pfaehler wrote:
> > Jon, my posting was serious. Did you check out the website of
> > www.myclimate.org
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.myclimate.org> 
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.myclimate.org>
http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl\?redirect=http://www.myclimate.org>,
> or did you just think it was a hoax?
> >
> > I'm using it regularly when I fly (which I avoid whenever I
> can take a train
> > around Europe), and so is our company for its car. I have
> followed this
> > initiative from its beginning. It's now 5 years old and has
> become a serious
> > and ethical business.
> >
> > Regards - Catherine
> >
> > Catherine Pfaehler Senn
> > lic.oec.HSG
> > Open Space Begleitung
> > Kellersriedweg 8
> > CH - 2503 Biel
> > +41-(0)32 - 365 68 41
> > c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
<javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch','','','')> 
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Jon Harvey
> [only.connect at virgin.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('only.connect at virgin.net','','','')>
','','','')">only.connect at virgin.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('only.connect at virgin.net','','','')> ]
> 
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 23:34
> > An: c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
<javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch','','','')>
<c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
<javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch','','','')> >
> > Cc: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
<javascript:top.opencompose('OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU','','','')> 
> <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
<javascript:top.opencompose('OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU','','','')> >
> > Betreff: Re: climate-neutral flights and drives!
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I would also 'recommend' a website called:
> >
> >
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheatneutral.com>
http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl\?redirect=http://www.cheatneutral.com>
> www.cheatneutral.com <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheatneutral.com>
http://www.cheatneutral.com>
> >
> > ...where people who are committing adultery can have their
> behaviour
> > offset by someone else who is committed to a single life or
> fidelity...
> >
> > I have also resolved to drink only flat beers from now on - as
> I think
> > that gassy beer can only be adding to greenhouse gases...
> >
> > Happy space to everyone!
> >
> > Jon
> > Oxford
> >
> >
> >
> > Catherine Pfaehler wrote:
> >
> > > Harrison and everybody - wishing you well...
> > >
> > > Did you know that on
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.myclimate.org>
http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl\?redirect=http://www.myclimate.org>
> www.myclimate.org <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myclimate.org%3E>
http://www.myclimate.org> you can buy climate
> tickets along
> > > with your airline tickets to CO2-neutralize your flights, and
> even your
> > >
> > car
> >
> > > drives? A great initiative by swiss students which is doing a
> wonderful
> > >
> > job
> >
> > > in investing the money they make in neutralizing projects!
> You enter your
> > > points of departure and arrival and the system calculates how
> many tons of
> > > CO2 you emit by sitting in that plane. Then it tells you how
> much a
> > >
> > climate
> >
> > > ticket costs. You buy it with your credit card. Absolutely
> affordable!
> > >
> > > Love, Catherine
> > >
> > > Catherine Pfaehler Senn
> > > lic.oec.HSG
> > > Open Space Begleitung
> > > Kellersriedweg 8
> > > CH - 2503 Biel
> > > +41-(0)32 - 365 68 41
> > > c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
<javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch','','','')>
<c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
<javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch','','','')> >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Harrison Owen [hhowen at verizon.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('hhowen at verizon.net','','','')> 
> <hhowen at verizon.net <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
>','','','')','','','')">hhowen at verizon.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('hhowen at verizon.net','','','')> >','','','')>
hhowen at verizon.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('hhowen at verizon.net','','','')> 
> <hhowen at verizon.net <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">hhowen at verizon.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('hhowen at verizon.net','','','')> >]
> 
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 01:50
> > > Betreff: For My Friends in Kiev
> > >
> > > Just so you know - I think what you are doing is wonderful,
> and I hope
> > >
> > that
> >
> > > everybody who can - will come. For myself - I would be there
> except for a
> > > Sciatic Nerve that reminds me that I am not as young as I
> used to be, and
> > > further -- that multiple hours on planes is not a good thing
> at this
> > >
> > point.
> >
> > > I was amazed (depressed) to find that on United Airlines
> alone I had
> > >
> > clocked
> >
> > > ¾ of a million miles. Just think of the tons of CO2
> (greenhouse gas) I
> > >
> > have
> >
> > > contributed!!! Anyhow, I have to stick closer to home at the
> moment, and I
> > > know you will have a grand time!
> > >
> > > Harrison
> > >
> > > Harrison Owen
> > > 7808 River Falls Drive
> > > Potomac, Maryland 20854
> > > Phone 301-365-2093
> > > Skype hhowen
> > > Open Space Training
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.com>
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> >
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<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.boisestate.edu%
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http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
> > >
> > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
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<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.openspaceworld.org%252Foslist%3Ehttp%3A%
2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.org%2Foslist>
http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl\?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.org%2
Foslist>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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> <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
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','','','')">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu
<javascript:top.opencompose('oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu','','','')> > :
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> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flistserv.boisestate.edu%252Farchives%252Fosl
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http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl\?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.boisestate.edu%
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> <
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> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.uk2.net%2Fparse.pl%
3Fredirect%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.openspaceworld.org%252Foslist%3Ehttp%3A%
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http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl\?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.org%2
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> >
> 
> *
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> ==========================================================
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<javascript:top.opencompose('oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu','','','')> >:
> <
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>
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2Farchives%2Foslist.html>
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> 
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> <
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>
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> 
> 
> * * ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
<javascript:top.opencompose('OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU','','','')> 
> <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
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<javascript:top.opencompose('OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU','','','')> >
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change
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>
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2Farchives%2Foslist.html>
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.org%2
Foslist> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Facilitation - Training
> Open Space Technology
> 
> Weblog:
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chriscorrigan.com%2F
parkinglot> http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot 
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chriscorrigan.com%2F
parkinglot> http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot>
> Site:
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chriscorrigan.com>
http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> 
> Principal, Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd.
>
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harvestmoonconsultan
ts.com> http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com 
> <
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harvestmoonconsultan
ts.com> http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com> * * 
> ========================================================== 
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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------------------------------ To 
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of 
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu
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2Farchives%2Foslist.html>
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about 
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
<http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.org%2
Foslist> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
<javascript:top.opencompose('OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU','','','')> 
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu
<javascript:top.opencompose('oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu','','','')> :
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist


* * ==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ----------------------------- To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist 


*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
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