On self-organizing

Mikk Sarv mikk at ilm.ee
Tue Feb 15 01:50:35 PST 2005 

On self-organizingThanks Funda, I like much what you wrote!
We live for Universe, and Universe lives for us. In some moment, the best service we can make is to die, like lots of beings have died to keep us alive.
I like much also Harrison's idea about dancing on the borders, on the membran of cell. 
Here is the music coming in. It just helps to dance, it opens some more space. 
And the dance and music is another service we can provide.
Mikk
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Funda Oral 
  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:10 AM
  Subject: Re: On self-organizing


  I think we (humans) made life toooo complex and got now lost in the middle of artificial needs, necessities, requirements and organizations.

  Every systems exists not for itself but only to serve another system...it ends when it stops serving something.

  And this service can be very simple...(such as serving our body by keeping it healthy or others by just smiling).....and then the service is complete
  and we die...end.....(point)

  And this service whether we are conscious or not is happening all the time...(=self organizing systems)

  We exagerated life and we don't now now how to get out of it (end, finsih, die)

  Funda 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Harrison Owen 
    To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU 
    Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:45 AM
    Subject: Re: On self-organizing


    Funda Wrote: OK i agree there must be an end....but still "how it will end" is important...elegant or not elegant? 



    I totally agree. It is not whether or not things will end, that you will die, or that the organizations we work for, and may have "created" - will end. Everything does. The real question is - With what meaning? So what would you hope for? What would be worth dying for?? I guess that is a little blunt, but I find it is a question that puts a lot of things in perspective.



    Harrison



    Harrison Owen

    7808 River Falls Drive

    Potomac, Maryland   20845

    Phone 301-365-2093

    Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com 

    Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org

    Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
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    -----Original Message-----
    From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Funda Oral
    Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:46 PM
    To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
    Subject: Re: On self-organizing



    Harrison-i am happily reading all answers, thank you.



    OK i agree there must be an end....but still "how it will end" is important...elegant or not elegant?        

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Harrison Owen 

      To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE...EDU 

      Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:44 PM

      Subject: Re: On self-organizing



      Funda - I would believe that answer to your question (do they have to sustain or survive???.......) is no. Fact of the matter is that all Living Systems have a beginning, middle and end. We love the beginning, tolerate the middle, and don't want to talk about the end. And that leads to all sorts of interesting mental gymnastics. Here in the US, very few people actually ever die, at least that would seem to be the case if you listen to how people talk. It is said - So and so  "passed on," "took the big trip," "Passed to the other side" - But it seems that nobody ever dies. The same is true when we talk about organizations. Somehow they are supposed to live for ever, and when the end comes that is automatically taken as failure. 



      Harrison



      Harrison Owen

      7808 River Falls Drive

      Potomac, Maryland   20845

      Phone 301-365-2093

      Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com 

      Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org

      Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
      OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.....EDU 

      To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

      -----Original Message-----
      From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Funda Oral
      Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:00 AM
      To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
      Subject: Re: On self-organizing



      all systems are self organizing but not all systems are living (sustaining)



      i don't know 



      Funda

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Ralph Copleman 

        To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE....EDU 

        Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:39 PM

        Subject: On self-organizing



        My vote goes to:

        All systems are self-organizing, and...

        There is no such thing as a non-living system.


        Ralph Copleman

        -- 
        Ralph Copleman
        EarthBusiness - Sustainable Business Strategies
        609-895-1629

        Home/Office Powered by Wind Energy
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