Open Space & Anti-Americanism

[Colin Morley]

Dear all

This discussion has been very helpful for me.

I have been part of a group that has struggled with this question - a group
that tried to influence the US election from the UK and that had a strong
backlash from Americans who did not want foreign interference.

Harrison I found your summary that we need to understand the 2 ends of the
spectrum between opening space and being activists and keep a 14 billion
year perspective very insightful.

It is also interesting to apply the principles and the laws to the Iraq
situation as you did Steve.  If whoever turns up is the right people then
the Americans, Saddam, the Taliban, Al Qaeda are all the right people.  This
makes me feel sorry for the Iraqis who can only apply the law of 2 feet by
leaving their own country.  Yet that is the reality.  And whatever happens
is the only thing that could have happened.

Ultimately my aim is to bring joy into my life and others.  Thinking about
what joy is - my conclusion is that it is 'connecting and being connected'
both in myself and with others.  At a deep level this conflict is connecting
up a lot of different things.  Energy is moving.  And there is joy in being
both an opener of space and a passionate and responsible activist.

Colin Morley

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve
Gawron
Sent: 07 February 2005 23:22
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Open Space & Anti-Americanism

Hello David and all,

As an American, I find it counter-productive to compare giving birth to
democracy and removing a tyrant who killed millions of his country's
citizens to anything but furthering the cause of peace.  Only an ostrich
sticks his head in the sand and expects danger to go away.

It is NOT "my country right or wrong", it is "Doing the right thing before
something horrible goes wrong."  As an American, I would have rather we did
not get involved in Iraq, but on the same hand I am glad we lent a hand to
citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan to allow them to form their own destiny.

As the open space adage goes, whoever shows up is the right persons to be
there.  As an American, I am glad we responded to a call for peace in that
region.  If disagreeing with this is considered anti-American, then you are
entitled to your opinion.  But I still feel, Saddam and his henchmen were
and are a destabilizing influence on Peace in that region and the rest of
the world.  You can't have it both ways.

I will go back to lurking now,

Steve Gawron


----- Original Message -----
From: "David William McKay" <dwmckay at sympatico.ca>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:56 AM
Subject: Open Space & Anti-Americanism


> Sorry I'm on digest so can't refer to a specific posting.
>
> Someone linked to an article and said something like:  Anti-americanism
> is dead. Or some such. I agree there's nothing to be gained from
> anti-americanism. Speaking from the pacifist side of the open-space I'm
> glad we finally are seeing nudges towards democracy in Iraq. But I also
> find it hard to see how anyone in favour of collaborative organizational
> change -- which is what I take open-space to be -- could feel all that
> comfy with a war justified by lies and false intelligence.
>
> War is always about changing the government of another nation-state by
> killing its citizens. That's about as far from collaborative change as
> you can get. It may at times be necessary. But when it is -- surely the
> ideal in a democratic state is to have a meaningful conversation about
> what counts as necessary so the management team (aka the Executive
> Branch) can have a mandate based upon informed consent.
>
> If I was an American -- I'm a Canuck -- I would be worried about the
> situation. Perhaps I have it bass-ackwards. But in wartime survival
> dictates "my country right or wrong" but in peacetime democracy dictates
> that the citizenry place democracy itself as the priority.
>
> David McKay
>
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