Dangerous idea?
Douglas D. Germann, Sr.
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Fri Nov 26 15:51:42 PST 2004
Duff--
Thanks for your response. You really put the question in tough terms. Thank
you for that, Duff.
At first I thought an answer would be to circulate a list of sites which
posted these videos, but that I quickly dispatched as giving them the
attention they do not deserve.
Then I wondered about bringing pressure to bear on their ISPs through
direct contact with the ISPs--but they are probably operated by the
sponsors of these organizations or their supporters. Again, doesn't seem
appropriate.
Then I wondered if the agency that authorizes the ISPs can somehow shut
them down if the site is in fact promoting the beheadings. Does anybody
know how the ISPs get their authority and what the stance of this "agency"
is on such matters?
:-Doug. Germann
Seeking people making community change.
PS: Duff, your response was written in html, which my e-mail program does
not handle. So it requires me to make a separate run to download your
e-mail (it comes as an attachment because it has html), run a virus checker
on it manually, then open it with a text reader. Any chance you can change
your preferences for this list to pure text (ascii)? Thanks, Duff!
:-Doug.
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>From Fri Nov 26 17:08:08 2004
Message-Id: <FRI.26.NOV.2004.170808.0800.>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:08:08 -0800
Reply-To: chris at chriscorrigan.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Chris Corrigan <chris.corrigan at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: that word again...
In-Reply-To: <000201c4d40d$dc245b10$6501a8c0 at harrison>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Funny..I was just thinking the same thing.
:-)
Chris
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:15:37 -0500, Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net> wrote:
> Rough translation -- "It just sort of happened" who knows how or why.
>
> ho
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Drive
> Potomac, Maryland 20845
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
> Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Eva P
> Svensson
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 5:32 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: that word again...
>
> It is the recognition that the watercooler of serendipity said Jack...
>
> Serendipity - what does that mean? It's neither in my dictionary nor on the
> same on my computer. Now I have seen it a couple of times - but what is it??
> Can someone help my curiosity?
>
> Bästa hälsningar
>
> Eva P Svensson
> ...................................................................
>
> EPS Human Invest AB
> "Verksamhetsutveckling genom människor skapar
> långsiktigt välmående företag och organisationer!"
> Anåsbergsvägen 22
> 439 34 ONSALA
> Tfn: 0300-615 05
> Mobil:0706-89 85 50
> eva at epshumaninvest.se
> www.epshumaninvest.se
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]För Jack Ricchiuto
> Skickat: den 26 november 2004 16:01
> Till: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Ämne: Re: givens
>
> If I have a personal agenda with the sponsor in
> the pre-event meeting(s) it is to help them to understand that the space
> already is open, no matter what they may think or do about it. HO
>
> This is so profoundly important. It is the recognition that the watercooler
> of serendipity - the informal organization - is where the conversations are
> always open, and often more creative and honest than those in the formal
> organization. And that the informal organization is the source of everything
> that ultimately happens in the formal organization anyway.
>
> Helping leaders and managers understand this is step one, I think, in a way
> that cultivates their trust with us and our trust with them. The next step
> is asking them a question like: what would you do if you could tap into a
> power that you couldn't control but that would make you more effective and
> happy about yourself in your role as leader/manager? If they express
> interest in the power, my role is to then to help them discover just that.I
> become their trusted guide in a new land.
>
> jack
>
> jack ricchiuto
> two.one.six/three.seven.three/seven.four.seven.five
> www.designinglife.com / www.appreciativeleadership.org
>
> > ------------Original Message------------
> > From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net>
> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > Date: Fri, Nov-26-2004 9:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: givens
> >
> > I think I am becoming clearer about my point of discomfort with
> > "Givens."
> > Real Givens (as opposed to apparent) are truly immutable, or as close
> > to it
> > as such things go on Planet Earth. And for me that would include
> > Gravity and
> > the force of Self-organization, and maybe a few others which do not
> > spring
> > immediately to mind. Everything else is up for grabs, if not now then
> > later.
> > I absolutely concur with the notion that we must have serious and
> > probing
> > discussions with sponsors prior to an OS -- but the focus should not
> > (probably) be about immutable Givens, but rather about what I might
> > call
> > "existential conditions as they see them." For me this conversation
> > usually
> > starts with two questions. 1) Why do you want to do this gathering? And
> > 2)
> > If it all "worked," what would have happened?
> >
> > My focus is on a critical issue (for me). How open is the space? If all
> > we
> > are talking about is "motivating the troops" to implement the new
> > marketing
> > plan, for example -- it doesn't seem to me that the space is really
> > open,
> > and doing an open space would probably be counter-productive, if only
> > because the troops might just start to take it seriously and change the
> > plan, no matter what had been said about The Plan being a sacred Given.
> >
> > Most of the Givens I have heard people talking about are not truly
> > immutable. It may be the case that nobody wants to force the issue, but
> > the
> > fact remains that all budgets change, all procedures mutate, all
> > structures
> > evolve, transform, or die. If I have a personal agenda with the sponsor
> > in
> > the pre-event meeting(s) it is to help them to understand that the
> > space
> > already is open, no matter what they may think or do about it. Their
> > ultimate success will depend upon recognition of that fact, and a
> > willingness to involve everybody who cares in the navigation of that
> > space.
> > If they go for less, they will get less. And for sure I will not have
> > done
> > anybody a favor if I create the (false) impression that someone has the
> > power to keep certain things off the agenda and away from the Wall. Of
> > course we all have our foibles and blind spots -- and for some period
> > of
> > time, maybe even a long time -- we can get away with it. But I believe
> > it to
> > be true that a clear eyed view of things as they actually are is
> > useful.
> >
> > Harrison
> >
> >
> >
> > Harrison Owen
> > 7808 River Falls Drive
> > Potomac, Maryland 20845
> > Phone 301-365-2093
> >
> > Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
> > Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
> > Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
> > Visit:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry
> > Peterson
> > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:52 PM
> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > Subject: Re: givens
> >
> > Jeff: I think you are on to something.
> >
> > "Container" or "Givens" or things that are not intended to be on the
> > table by the sponsor of an event are both social constructions and
> > acknowledgement of "something" that is there. If I sit on a chair,
> > that
> > is gone, I will fall on my ass (or some other part of my anatomy) - I
> > take that as given. If there is a business plan that requires board
> > approval for change - that is usually taken as a "given". It does not
> > mean that it cannot be changed, but it is there now - just like Human
> > Rights Codes and others thing are likely there. Of course, in Canada,
> > these things may be a little less open for immediate negotiation as
> > they
> > are in the US. I don't think George saw anything in Iraq that should
> > be
> > taken a given, other than his socially constructed vision for its
> > future.
> >
> > I think it also relates to levels of awareness. At one level there are
> > no givens, every moment comes into being with the opportunity for
> > novelty. However, most rocks don't decide to decompose in a few days
> > -- granite takes a little longer. Some of my clients, from their
> > perspective, have some real givens that they construct. I think naming
> > and reducing the number of them is helpful as part of planning to open
> > space or deciding whether or not to open space in this situation with
> > this client. Helping them consciously reduce the number of givens is
> > useful learning, I think. Will open space work if that is not done -
> > yes.
> >
> > However, I am seeing the consequences over this two week period. One
> > client I'm working with now on a series of 14 OS has had some real
> > variability in how she has set the context - how clearly she has told
> > people what this part of the government is wanting to do, to engage
> > them
> > in and the fact that it will not commit resources to the
> > self-organization it wants to seed in the community. The quality and
> > energy of the events have been worse when she was not clear or
> > passionate (she got a cold). People were more combatitive when she was
> > not honest with them from the beginning about the situation. The OST
> > has worked every time to engage people and energy around the theme.
> > The
> > issues emerge in the convergence and next steps when the context is not
> > clearly and honestly set by the sponsor.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > Larry Peterson
> > Associates in Transformation
> > Toronto, ON, Canada
> > 416.653.4829
> >
> > larry at spiritedorg.com
> > www.spiritedorg.com
> >
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--
-------------------------
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Consultation - Facilitation
Open Space Technology
Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
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