conscious of evolution as it evolves. ???

Fri Jul 23 10:42:35 PDT 2004

Harrison and all

your posting was -due to server problems - the only one I could just open
here. It reaches me partizipating at a retreat at Isla de
Margarita/Venezuela with Rinpoche Namkhai Norbu.
Nice coincidence.
Instead of opening space here, I am actually building a compost pile for the
community.

All the best to all of you
Bernd Weber

As usual OSLIST and it's denizens seems to be going where angels fear to
> tread. Some may feel that we are wandering off into the realm of idle
> philosophical speculation, and I guess that is true to a point. I also
> think
> that this present discussion lies at the heart of what we do/don't do in
> Open Space.
>
> Funda said, "is evolution possible without consciousness??" And I might
> ask -- are we talking about the evolution of consciousness? Or the
> consciousness of evolution? Or both? And not too far down the road we come
> to one of the great divides in World Thinking. There are those, largely in
> the "Scientific" West who prefer to think that matter is primary, and that
> over time it manifests consciousness (becomes conscious). Roughly put, we
> all start out as bodies (matter), then develop mental capacities, and
> finally (for most of us) evolve the capacity to be conscious of our selves
> as thinking bodies -- and then maybe even become conscious of our
> consciousness. Much of the rest of the world looks at the same data
> (progression) and comes to a radically different conclusion. Their story
> is
> that  Consciousness is primary and that over time It appears (manifests)
> in
> progressively more complex and elegant expressions. From where I sit, this
> is truly a case of "pay your money and take your choice." I can't imagine
> how you would "prove" either one, and we actually have a case of  a priori
> assumptions. And the real issue is which story makes the most sense and is
> most functional in terms of what you (whoever you are) want to do. The
> Western Story is and has been a powerful one, forming the basis of the
> Western Scientific enterprise. And obviously that enterprise has been
> rewarding, albeit with certain limitations (We have created an industrial
> society which is about ready to pollute us to death). With this story we
> find ourselves confronting such wonderful questions as the "Biological
> (molecular) basis of Consciousness." The alternate story -- that
> Consciousness is primary -- takes one to rather different places.
> Consciousness
> IS -- and over time becomes manifest in quarks, atoms, molecules,
> quasars -- and you and me. According to this story, when we perceive
> ourselves
> as conscious (or Consciousness) we are not doing/creating anything new --
> we
> are simply recognizing our selves as we have always been and truly are.
> The
> Buddhists would say -- We see our original face. And the journey of life
> and
> evolution is the journey to (the recognition of) our authentic selves.
> Some
> of us move more quickly down this road and we call them mystics or saints.
> Most of the rest of us take our own sweet time. Anyhow . . .
>
> What on earth does this have to do with Open Space, the application of
> Open
> Space, our role in Open Space, the place and relationship of Open Space to
> current organizations?????
>
> The answer(s), I think, begins with yet another question. What happens
> when
> space opens? Is it the case that we are doing something novel and strange
> --
> or rather that we have created some appropriate conditions such that what
> was already present becomes visable. In short we are not "learning
> something
> new"  but rather remembering what we already knew -- but forgot?
> Personally,
> I find the "remembering" story to be the most compelling, or how else to
> explain the common experience of working with a group of folks who have
> had
> no training in esoteric skills, conflict resolution, group process -- and
> yet in basically 15 minites flat most are behaving as if being in Open
> Space
> was the most natural thing in the world? Maybe it is? They just remember
> what they had forgotten. Rather like riding a bicycle -- once you have
> done
> it you can never really forget.
>
> Our role in this situation becomes rather clear, and our anxiety level
> should go down. There is little to teach and less to worry about. The
> folks
> are already there, they only have to be reminded. Gently.
>
> And do you have to be a Buddhist? Probably not, but it could help.
>
> Harrison
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Funda Oral" <fundaokan at superonline.com>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:39 AM
> Subject: conscious of evolution as it evolves. ???
>
>
> > is evolution possible without consciousness??
> >
> > Funda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Therese Fitzpatrick" <theresefitz at hotmail.com>
> > To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: conscious of evolution as it evolves. . .
> >
> >
> > > I think some people are conscious of evolution as it evolves and some
> of
> > > those people tell others what they perceive.  For the rest of us,
> > sometimes
> > > we believe and integrate what the people who are conscious of
> evolution
> > > share and sometimes we don't.  All people are not all at the some
> > > evolutionary level and knowing who is where is a guessing game for
> some
> > and
> > > for others . . . for others, they have clearer knowing.
> > >
> > > In some cultures, people with a present, conscious awareness of
> evolution
> > > were called soothsayers.  Sometimes they are artists.  Philosophers.
> > >
> > > I believe practicing open space is a very fine tool for any person,
> > > regardless of their level of awareness of conscious evolution, to
> develop
> > > the ability to BE aware of conscious evolution.
> > >
> > > I believe humanity is undergoing a big shift in consciousness and more
> and
> > > more people are aware of the shift. . . we hear it creaking and
> cracking
> > > like the ice breaking up in anticipation of spring.  I hear it often
> in
> > open
> > > space.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Artur Silva <arturfsilva at yahoo.com>
> > > >Reply-To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> > > >To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > > >Subject: Re: Is there a need to hold space for people to ask the
> > > question, "what'
> > > >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:02:09 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Doug
> > > >
> > > >--- "Douglas D. Germann, Sr."
> > > ><76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> > > > > Artur--
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your wonder!
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean by "Evolution... is never conscient
> > > > > to the species that
> > > > > follow ... it"?
> > > > >
> > > > > Teilhard seems to me to hold that evolution has
> > > > > become conscious of itself
> > > > > in humanity. We are therefore life reflecting on
> > > > > itself. Do you agree?
> > > >
> > > >My reading of Theilhard de Chardin was many-many years
> > > >ago and it was not very profound. So, speaking only
> > > >for myself, I think that humanity is conscious of
> > > >evolution as a fact of the past. I don't think it is
> > > >conscious of it has it happens  - or would be
> > > >conscious if it happened...
> > > >
> > > >Artur
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________
> > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
> > > >http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
> > > >
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--
----------------------------------
Bernd Weber
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