About the next OSonOS and the OS site - the quest for a "global OS"

[Averbuch]

Artur and all

        I have been busy breathless in the last few month . today have the
chance to catch up on list reading. it is delicious! - I want to thank you
all for that.
        Artur, your post had made it impossible for me not to write
anything....
I share the frustration you describe on many levels and had been thinking
about the feelings (responsibility ? burden? unfairness?) that English
speaking people may feel as a sort of mirror to the feelings
(responsibility? burden? unfairness?) that the "border links" of language
may feel.

To read the list (and your beautiful posts ) takes me forever - but I do.
I write from time to time (much less then I desire to share and to ask) -
but I "locked out"for decades when I do
To translate few stories of the 50 ost stories I wrote in Hebrew - is
waiting for a latter NOW and this is so frustration!!!_>

BUT

I am glad, so glad, to say that in the last 4 years not only my life and the
life of people I have spent time with is tremendously richer but that over
to 2 last years 50 Israelis took basic training in Hebrew and with emphasis
on the Israeli experience with OST (4 days) and took further training in
Engligh-Hebrew setting ( Harrison, Avner and myself ) with emphasis on the
world at large (inner and outer-). This also gave way to training in
Ramallah by Harrison and Carol in a English-Arabic setting.

As far as I am aware of 3-5 of this group op OST Israeli practitioners will
be coming to Denmark
I am sure we can make an international learning organization sweat in the
summer

see you all, friends. I am waiting so long to meet you in person! this will
give some extra energy to many to keep on the effort..
hugs

Tova

Tova averbuch
Israel


-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Artur
Ferreira da Silva
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:58 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: About the next OSonOS and the OS site - the quest for a "global OS"


Dear friends:

Some weeks ago in a private e-mail conversation with a colleague he told
me, in a marginal comment, that "OST is mainly an American thing".  I have
not commented that observation but I have been thinking about it... And
there is one thing I am sure: many of us that are non-American and
non-English-speakers are guilty of OST being still considered mainly "an
American thing".

Eiwor's message today about the registration process for OSonOS in Denmark,
conducted me to see what I could find about that event on the web. The only
thing that I could discover was a page in the OSworld site, in English,
with an invitation - also in English-only. I have also been seeing the new
Wiki look of the web site, namely of the English-language part of it.
Congratulations Michael, it's really wonderfull. And I also remember seeing
a message in this list about the need for a French version of some material
related with next OSONOS.

Before I make any other comments, let me begin with a self-critique. I am
guilt of not having offered yet a Portuguese translation of the invitation
and also of not having had yet the time to learn a bit more about "wiki
publishing" and begin contributing more to the OSW site - which I think
that anyone of us can do in his own language. Is that correct Michael
(Herman, not one the other angels out there)?

Let me go back a bit in the past, and recall my personal experience with
the OS community. After being lurking in this list for more than one year,
I saw a message announcing OSONOS in Berlin that I attended. I will not
repeat what I felt there - that I have shared with this list and is in the
Archives  - but only some observations and thoughts that I have not shared.

The first thing I have noticed in Berlin is that, apart from people from
German (or German speaking countries) and some from the Nordic countries
(more used to English), the presence of Europeans was almost zero. Zero
from France, Italy, Greece and the francophone part of Belgium, two from
Spain (working for a multinational company, German if I recall well), 1
from Portugal (myself), a few (surprisingly few) from UK. Apart from
Germany, USA, Canada (mainly the English speaking part) and Australia were
well represented. On the other hand, the attempt to create after Berlin a
European chapter (non German, that already had one) of the community didn't
work.

Back home I have noticed that the OSworld site was in English-only and have
suggested that translations, at least of the Intro, should be made (by
volunteers). In fact, as some of you may recall, the first non English
Intro was the Portuguese one - and others followed. For some time this look
a global multinational site. That's no longer true, as the English speaking
part evolved brilliantly and the others didn't.

[Let me clarify something that I don't know if I have expressed before. I
am convinced that the OS community will never spread consistently in Greek
and Latin Europe (except in what refers to the practice of some American
expacts) unless there are translations of many materials in all the
European languages, including invitations in all those languages at least
for the OSONOS's organized in Europe - that should be distributed through
national lists and sites of those countries.

In fact, I also think that the main problem of the current Empire, and of
the majority of the English-speaking people (including in the UK) to spread
their practices is their inability to understand that the world (and
especially Europe) is multilingual and that a French, or Italian or Spanish
(from Spain) considers rude and inadequate the fact that some one talks to
him in his own country in a foreign language.  And it is even worst if that
language is the language of the Empire.

Now, the next OSONOS will be held in Europe. Is this an event mainly
directed to all that have been in the previous OSONOS, adding some people
from Denmark and Sweden - but still being mainly a Northern event (that
also includes for that purpose the "opposite" English-speaking South)?

Or shall we profit from this opportunity to extend to the south the scope
of the OS community. beginning with the southern Europe languages and
regions or even, eventually, trying to involve Africa?

What I can offer as a contribution to make my dream come true is:

(1) A translation into Portuguese of the invitation to OSONOS-Svenmark for
publication in the OSW site (or any other) if that is requested to me by
the organizers
(2) The distribution of that translation in some Portuguese mailing lists
(3) A translation of a short summary of the invitation in French and
Spanish and the distributions to Spanish and French lists (if natives of
those languages don't offer themselves).
(4) After September a more regular participation in the OSwolrd wiki,
creating more Portuguese pages.

Are there any others willing to offer contributions to make OSONOS in
Svenmark a really "global event" and not only an "English event also
offered to some countries that accept the English"?

Regards

Artur

PS: For OST, "being global" is NOT to be in every continent. It Is to be
develloped in any region in their own language. In my opinion, only then
the needed global diversity will be obtained....

PPS: and this ends my messages during the holiday

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>From  Sat Jun 14 12:01:28 2003
Message-Id: <SAT.14.JUN.2003.120128.0200.>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:01:28 +0200
Reply-To: thomas at openspaceconsulting.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Thomas Herrmann <thomas at openspaceconsulting.com>
Subject: SV: About the next OSonOS and the OS site - the quest for a
 "global OS"
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030610211557.026934a0 at pop.kpnqwest.pt>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear Arthur
Great idea! I encourage you and anyone else who would like to spread the
word about OSonOS by translating the invitation to any other language to go
forth with it. I ask you to be careful though, with the facts since:

We wouldn´t like the wrong people to arrive
when it has already started or
when it´s over.
They might not like that whatever has already happened and that
they have used their feet for nothing.
Well, some bumblebees and butterflies would certainly be around at the
beautiful surroundings.
Can´t wait to meet you all! !
Warmest regards
Thomas

> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]För Artur Ferreira
> da Silva
> Skickat: den 11 juni 2003 01:58
> Till: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Ämne: About the next OSonOS and the OS site - the quest for a "global
> OS"
>
>
> Dear friends:
>
> Some weeks ago in a private e-mail conversation with a
> colleague he told
> me, in a marginal comment, that "OST is mainly an American
> thing".  I have
> not commented that observation but I have been thinking about
> it... And
> there is one thing I am sure: many of us that are non-American and
> non-English-speakers are guilty of OST being still considered
> mainly "an
> American thing".
>
> Eiwor's message today about the registration process for
> OSonOS in Denmark,
> conducted me to see what I could find about that event on the
> web. The only
> thing that I could discover was a page in the OSworld site,
> in English,
> with an invitation - also in English-only. I have also been
> seeing the new
> Wiki look of the web site, namely of the English-language part of it.
> Congratulations Michael, it's really wonderfull. And I also
> remember seeing
> a message in this list about the need for a French version of
> some material
> related with next OSONOS.
>
> Before I make any other comments, let me begin with a
> self-critique. I am
> guilt of not having offered yet a Portuguese translation of
> the invitation
> and also of not having had yet the time to learn a bit more
> about "wiki
> publishing" and begin contributing more to the OSW site -
> which I think
> that anyone of us can do in his own language. Is that correct Michael
> (Herman, not one the other angels out there)?
>
> Let me go back a bit in the past, and recall my personal
> experience with
> the OS community. After being lurking in this list for more
> than one year,
> I saw a message announcing OSONOS in Berlin that I attended.
> I will not
> repeat what I felt there - that I have shared with this list
> and is in the
> Archives  - but only some observations and thoughts that I
> have not shared.
>
> The first thing I have noticed in Berlin is that, apart from
> people from
> German (or German speaking countries) and some from the
> Nordic countries
> (more used to English), the presence of Europeans was almost
> zero. Zero
> from France, Italy, Greece and the francophone part of
> Belgium, two from
> Spain (working for a multinational company, German if I
> recall well), 1
> from Portugal (myself), a few (surprisingly few) from UK. Apart from
> Germany, USA, Canada (mainly the English speaking part) and
> Australia were
> well represented. On the other hand, the attempt to create
> after Berlin a
> European chapter (non German, that already had one) of the
> community didn't
> work.
>
> Back home I have noticed that the OSworld site was in
> English-only and have
> suggested that translations, at least of the Intro, should be made (by
> volunteers). In fact, as some of you may recall, the first non English
> Intro was the Portuguese one - and others followed. For some
> time this look
> a global multinational site. That's no longer true, as the
> English speaking
> part evolved brilliantly and the others didn't.
>
> [Let me clarify something that I don't know if I have
> expressed before. I
> am convinced that the OS community will never spread
> consistently in Greek
> and Latin Europe (except in what refers to the practice of
> some American
> expacts) unless there are translations of many materials in all the
> European languages, including invitations in all those
> languages at least
> for the OSONOS's organized in Europe - that should be
> distributed through
> national lists and sites of those countries.
>
> In fact, I also think that the main problem of the current
> Empire, and of
> the majority of the English-speaking people (including in the
> UK) to spread
> their practices is their inability to understand that the world (and
> especially Europe) is multilingual and that a French, or
> Italian or Spanish
> (from Spain) considers rude and inadequate the fact that some
> one talks to
> him in his own country in a foreign language.  And it is even
> worst if that
> language is the language of the Empire.
>
> Now, the next OSONOS will be held in Europe. Is this an event mainly
> directed to all that have been in the previous OSONOS, adding
> some people
> from Denmark and Sweden - but still being mainly a Northern
> event (that
> also includes for that purpose the "opposite" English-speaking South)?
>
> Or shall we profit from this opportunity to extend to the
> south the scope
> of the OS community. beginning with the southern Europe languages and
> regions or even, eventually, trying to involve Africa?
>
> What I can offer as a contribution to make my dream come true is:
>
> (1) A translation into Portuguese of the invitation to
> OSONOS-Svenmark for
> publication in the OSW site (or any other) if that is
> requested to me by
> the organizers
> (2) The distribution of that translation in some Portuguese
> mailing lists
> (3) A translation of a short summary of the invitation in French and
> Spanish and the distributions to Spanish and French lists (if
> natives of
> those languages don't offer themselves).
> (4) After September a more regular participation in the OSwolrd wiki,
> creating more Portuguese pages.
>
> Are there any others willing to offer contributions to make OSONOS in
> Svenmark a really "global event" and not only an "English event also
> offered to some countries that accept the English"?
>
> Regards
>
> Artur
>
> PS: For OST, "being global" is NOT to be in every continent.
> It Is to be
> develloped in any region in their own language. In my
> opinion, only then
> the needed global diversity will be obtained....
>
> PPS: and this ends my messages during the holiday
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
> Visit:
>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>

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