Givens (was: Already-there ness, Empowerment and Such)

[Chris Corrigan]

That's great to know Bernd!  Amazing the stories we tell ourselves.
"Science won't let us fly yet." I suppose they were right, but only by
three weeks!

Chris


---
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Consultation - Facilitation
Open Space Technology

Bowen Island, BC, Canada
http://www.chriscorrigan.com
chris at chriscorrigan.com


>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of WB-
>  TrainingConsultingDevelopment
>  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:15 AM
>  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>  Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)
>
>  Chris,
>
>  Yes, I agree - of course - with your main point.
>
>  and  the N. Y. Times article was based on a declaration of some quite
>  eminent physicists
>  who made that basic error to believe, that, what they can not
imagine,
>  can not happen.
>
>  They did not say: "actual physics (=our map) does not see any
possibility
>  for flying"
>  They said: "it is impossible to fly"
>
>  So they were fundamentally wrong, although on the top of their
science
>
>  Bernd
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of
Chris
>  Corrigan
>  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:32 AM
>  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>  Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)
>
>  Yes Bernd, my point was that the Wright brothers, having fully
>  understood the givens, figured out how to fly.  I recently read that
>  only weeks before they did this, the New York Times published an
>  editorial saying that humans would never fly.  Seems to me to be a
prime
>  example of what I'm talking about.
>
>  This case is in fact an eloquent example of what I mean now when I
say
>  that the real "givens" are empowering and the false ones are
>  disempowering.  Dealing with real givens, we can work around them,
bring
>  to bear all the creativity and ingenuity of the human spirit alone or
in
>  groups to figure out solutions that include and transcend the givens.
>  But I believe that the hardest givens to overcome are the ones that
>  aren't even real: the stories we tell ourselves about why we can't do
>  things.  In that case, empowerment finally comes when one sees that
the
>  stories are simply stories, and not reality at all.
>
>  To put it on a bumper sticker, it's the difference between "givens"
and
>  "give-ins"
>
>  Eh?
>
>  Chris
>
>
>  ---
>  CHRIS CORRIGAN
>  Consultation - Facilitation
>  Open Space Technology
>
>  Bowen Island, BC, Canada
>  http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>  chris at chriscorrigan.com
>
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
WB-
>  > TrainingConsultingDevelopment
>  > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:44 AM
>  > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>  > Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)
>  >
>  > Has nothing to do with open space,
>  > just a note for science-metaphor using freeks:
>  > ------------
>  >
>  > Chris,
>  >
>  > I like your argument
>  > but your example is only good in the sense of a metapher.
>  >
>  > f you look at the real history of technology, the Wright- brothers'
>  (and
>  > other genial technical engeneer's) approach was not the one you
>  > described. Yet they flew.
>  > The point is, that you forgot that there was another fact-or in the
>  game
>  > you unduely reduced complexity
>  > Air: they did not invent ballistic rockets (for which your argument
>  would
>  > be right)
>  > But they used aerodynamics against gravity in their art (greek:
>  téknè) of
>  > flying
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:14:18 -0800, Chris Corrigan wrote:
>  > Without getting esoteric, one can WANT to fly, but if one advances
>  > efforts to do so without admitting that gravity is a force to be
>  > reckoned with, one won't get very far.  However, if one accepts
that
>  > gravity is real and can be absolutely known and that it is a true
>  > given, then one can accommodate gravity in one's quest to fly.
"Okay
>  > then" one would think, "I need to make something that accelerates
me
>  > away from the earth with more force than gravity can exert on me."
>  > This is profoundly more empowering thought than "Screw it, gravity
is
>  > too strong.  I'll never fly."  It is more empowering because it
>  > actually leads one to flight.
>  >
>  > *
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