Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)

Sun Mar 2 06:14:44 PST 2003

Chris,

Yes, I agree - of course - with your main point.

and  the N. Y. Times article was based on a declaration of some quite eminent physicists
who made that basic error to believe, that, what they can not imagine, can not happen.

They did not say: "actual physics (=our map) does not see any possibility for flying"
They said: "it is impossible to fly"

So they were fundamentally wrong, although on the top of their science

Bernd

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris
Corrigan
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:32 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)

Yes Bernd, my point was that the Wright brothers, having fully
understood the givens, figured out how to fly.  I recently read that
only weeks before they did this, the New York Times published an
editorial saying that humans would never fly.  Seems to me to be a prime
example of what I'm talking about.

This case is in fact an eloquent example of what I mean now when I say
that the real "givens" are empowering and the false ones are
disempowering.  Dealing with real givens, we can work around them, bring
to bear all the creativity and ingenuity of the human spirit alone or in
groups to figure out solutions that include and transcend the givens.
But I believe that the hardest givens to overcome are the ones that
aren't even real: the stories we tell ourselves about why we can't do
things.  In that case, empowerment finally comes when one sees that the
stories are simply stories, and not reality at all.

To put it on a bumper sticker, it's the difference between "givens" and
"give-ins"

Eh?

Chris

---
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Consultation - Facilitation
Open Space Technology

Bowen Island, BC, Canada
http://www.chriscorrigan.com
chris at chriscorrigan.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of WB-
> TrainingConsultingDevelopment
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:44 AM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)
>
> Has nothing to do with open space,
> just a note for science-metaphor using freeks:
> ------------
>
> Chris,
>
> I like your argument
> but your example is only good in the sense of a metapher.
>
> f you look at the real history of technology, the Wright- brothers'
(and
> other genial technical engeneer's) approach was not the one you
> described. Yet they flew.
> The point is, that you forgot that there was another fact-or in the
game
> you unduely reduced complexity
> Air: they did not invent ballistic rockets (for which your argument
would
> be right)
> But they used aerodynamics against gravity in their art (greek:
téknè) of
> flying
>
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:14:18 -0800, Chris Corrigan wrote:
> Without getting esoteric, one can WANT to fly, but if one advances
> efforts to do so without admitting that gravity is a force to be
> reckoned with, one won't get very far.  However, if one accepts that
> gravity is real and can be absolutely known and that it is a true
> given, then one can accommodate gravity in one's quest to fly.  "Okay
> then" one would think, "I need to make something that accelerates me
> away from the earth with more force than gravity can exert on me."
> This is profoundly more empowering thought than "Screw it, gravity is
> too strong.  I'll never fly."  It is more empowering because it
> actually leads one to flight.
>
> *
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>From  Sun Mar  2 16:53:53 2003
Message-Id: <SUN.2.MAR.2003.165353.0100.>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:53:53 +0100
Reply-To: thomas at openspaceconsulting.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Thomas Herrmann <thomas at openspaceconsulting.com>
Subject: SV: Priorization in short time
In-Reply-To: <001801c2dee2$6fef15b0$ec76c33f at Lucy>
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Dear Lisa (and all of you others sharing).
I don´t view prioritization as a goal, but a means of achiving a picture of
where the energy is high. Right now I am "playing around" with different
ways to converge/prioritize.

I guess what bothers me in the actual case is that the theme for the
conference may become too wide to handle in a thorough way in a one-day OST
(I will work with the goup of managers coming Wendesday to set the theme but
I have got that impression from talking to the CEO). It also depends on how
open they will want it to get. They have some development-projects going to
get this organization a whole (used to be 20 selfgoverning parts) and they
may want the results of the OST to be merged into this, although opening up
space for more people to engage.

Actually, the key question may well be, how open do they want it to be? As
often I think they have not really thought it over, what do they want
besides a good conversation? They have scheduled a 2-day conference with all
staff 31/3-1/4. The first day is already full - the traditional way - and it
doesn´t seem they want to change the plan. Quite good input though for the
next day.

I have talked to the CEO about scheduling a follow up day to continue
working and to converge. Everybody wouldn´t have to nor be able to come, but
that´s OK, I think.
On the other hand it might go well to do in the same manner as I did a
couple of days ago. One problem being how we will manage to provide all 250
participants space to read proceedings. We will not be able to get everyone
a book before closing.

Last thursday-friday I facilitated an OST with 50 persons ("important"
municipal politicians and youth (Important, too, I guess)) from 16
municipalities met to talk about a the future of the Swedish "gymnasium" -
in Sweden that is year 10-13 of school. There is work being done for a
future major change and each municipality (and other interested) are to
write what they think about the put out proposal before June.

I had planned to let them make prioritization "the traditional way" to give
them a picture of what the hot issues were for them as a collective. I
changed my mind though (I guess partly after starting this thread) and gave
them time to sit down - politicians and youth from each municipality - and
think about what issues they want to take home to continue working with.
They wrote their issues on a piece of flip-chart and put it on the wall, had
a short report out, before closing. This was also included in "the book".
This worked very well, and it seems the hot issues became quite clear!

Also some municipalities decided to develope cooperation, some of the youths
were invited to by "their" politicians to come and present the findings from
the conference in the community. Further on there were many comments of the
value to have an open dialogue between politicians and youth in Open Space.
Greetings
Thomas Herrmann

> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]För Lisa Heft
> Skickat: den 28 februari 2003 05:33
> Till: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Ämne: Re: Priorization in short time
>
>
> Thomas --
>
> Can you tell us more why prioritization is a goal?  If it's just
> highlighting key issues, won't they come out in closing circle?
>
> Lisa
>
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