Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)

[toke]

Thanks you Chris

very enligthening conversation.....

It inspires me to more often ask some serious questions when meeting Mr
Given...

- are you real ?
- do you, Mister Given have natural meaning or are you based in fear
and control?
- if I challenced you would you disappear or become my creative friend ?

more "give ups" would become shadows and more real givens could surface
into clarity....

thanks for making this practise more conscious .....

- toke



søndag 2. mar 2003 kl. 12:32 skrev Chris Corrigan:

> Yes Bernd, my point was that the Wright brothers, having fully
> understood the givens, figured out how to fly.  I recently read that
> only weeks before they did this, the New York Times published an
> editorial saying that humans would never fly.  Seems to me to be a
> prime
> example of what I'm talking about.
>
> This case is in fact an eloquent example of what I mean now when I say
> that the real "givens" are empowering and the false ones are
> disempowering.  Dealing with real givens, we can work around them,
> bring
> to bear all the creativity and ingenuity of the human spirit alone or
> in
> groups to figure out solutions that include and transcend the givens.
> But I believe that the hardest givens to overcome are the ones that
> aren't even real: the stories we tell ourselves about why we can't do
> things.  In that case, empowerment finally comes when one sees that the
> stories are simply stories, and not reality at all.
>
> To put it on a bumper sticker, it's the difference between "givens" and
> "give-ins"
>
> Eh?
>
> Chris
>
>
> ---
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Consultation - Facilitation
> Open Space Technology
>
> Bowen Island, BC, Canada
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> chris at chriscorrigan.com
>
>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of WB-
>>  TrainingConsultingDevelopment
>>  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:44 AM
>>  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>  Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such)
>>
>>  Has nothing to do with open space,
>>  just a note for science-metaphor using freeks:
>>  ------------
>>
>>  Chris,
>>
>>  I like your argument
>>  but your example is only good in the sense of a metapher.
>>
>>  f you look at the real history of technology, the Wright- brothers'
> (and
>>  other genial technical engeneer's) approach was not the one you
>>  described. Yet they flew.
>>  The point is, that you forgot that there was another fact-or in the
> game
>>  you unduely reduced complexity
>>  Air: they did not invent ballistic rockets (for which your argument
> would
>>  be right)
>>  But they used aerodynamics against gravity in their art (greek:
> téknè) of
>>  flying
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:14:18 -0800, Chris Corrigan wrote:
>>  Without getting esoteric, one can WANT to fly, but if one advances
>>  efforts to do so without admitting that gravity is a force to be
>>  reckoned with, one won't get very far.  However, if one accepts that
>>  gravity is real and can be absolutely known and that it is a true
>>  given, then one can accommodate gravity in one's quest to fly.  "Okay
>>  then" one would think, "I need to make something that accelerates me
>>  away from the earth with more force than gravity can exert on me."
>>  This is profoundly more empowering thought than "Screw it, gravity is
>>  too strong.  I'll never fly."  It is more empowering because it
>>  actually leads one to flight.
>>
>>  *
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