AW: Four way translation of open space

[Catherine Pfaehler]

Dear Chris - thanks for your passion. It was very feelable in reading. And
thanks for taking action. Catherine

Catherine Pfaehler
Kellersriedweg 8
CH - 2503 Biel
T/F/B ++41 - (0)32 - 365 68 41

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]Im Auftrag von chris
macrae
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 20:55
An: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Betreff: Re: Four way translation of open space

Dominique, I think I largely agree with your sensitivities or spirit.
And I certainly agree that if we pick on every English word (because we
distrust most who wordsmith words) we are in trouble. I am a
mathematician and not very good with words but please note I did not use
the word targeting, you infiltrated that word into what I was trying to
say. Having clarified where I am trying to come from

Then
 1)
Yes I love this sentence: . If a few of us perceive conflicts as rich
and positive opportunities for growth and creativity, I believe it is
important to remember that for most, those terms actually describe
painful experiences that are to be avoided if possible - or to be used
to maintain power.

2) I see not a lot of difference between my sentence and yours that
follows but am happy to be told which is better for whom: " ...for
transforming the dynamics of conflict, change and chaos into productive
processes stimulating participation, individual and group commitment,
and collaborative solution-building behaviours."

3) As a European myself, I can't wait to see the people make Europe
themselves. Wouldn't it be good not to depend on some dignitaries and
other deciders to make things happen in an open way? Question is: how to
do it and where to start

-well now we're at the big issue, and it interests me how there is a
parallel between how american people were robbed and how Europeans were

In america's case what is needed is for 0-funded president to beat 250
million dollar ad funded by big business president to win , and to hope
that the zero-funded president is the real McCoy. This is the big game
of 2004 across USA- fingers crossed the opens win...

In Europe's case, the problem seems to me to get back to discussing why
we all accepted another layer of government (command & control on top of
national command & control). The only identity that got the EU into
existence was "no more wars started in Europe". Somewhere along the line
the bureaucrats have so fiddled with commanding over tangibles like
agriculture and intangibles like Gatts that the EU has is now in a
compound way certainly adding cost for every citizen and probably
betraying its structural design of facilitating no more wars by helping
to be the route cause compounding desperation outside its boundaries;

4) Knowing all this if I can get the EU to sponsor a meeting of those
who would try and free the people from its chains in an area KM where
billions of Euros are spent on chaining hierarchy, then on that issue I
completely misunderstand your targeted message at my suggestion. By
sponsor I don't even mean money - I really mean the authority and news
that it is happening, and is important enough to be in the EU's remit of
permissionary influence to draw big hitters/observers/commentaors as
well as passionate believers in whatever cause they wish to open up. I
also happen to believe if this is done with a few good souls of the EU
present they may learn to want more and more open forums rather than
meeting and funding rules which in a convoluted way are the very
opposite of opening passionate debate of the people by the people

cheers
chris macrae
here's an EU space to play with words and conversations
http://www.knowledgeboard.com/community/zones/sig/kmei.html
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
Dominique Proudhon
Sent: 28 December 2003 18:49
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Four way translation of open space

>Systemically it is also the simplest tool people will have for
communally valuing the dynamics of Conflict, Change and Chaos.

I'm not sure what "communally valuing de dynamics..." can mean to the
folks you are targeting. Believe they would find it scary. If a few of
us perceive conflicts as rich and positive opportunities for growth and
creativity, I believe it is important to remember that for most, those
terms actually describe painful experiences that are to be avoided if
possible - or to be used to maintain power. Most people I meet seem to
believe that the "word" IS the "thing" it describes. So better put
ourselves in their shoes when using words... I would propose:  " ...for
transforming the dynamics of conflict, change and chaos into productive
processes stimulating participation, individual and group commitment,
and collaborative solution-building behaviors."


>ps trying to open space the readers of this European Union web in 2004
(crossing a lot of fingers)

As an old friend of mine would say: "If you are trying, it is very
possible you are not doing".
What if the European policy makers and other professionals you are
talking about are not the best open minds?
What if their very status depend on minimal participation and
involvement?
As a European myself, I can't wait to see the people make Europe
themselves. Wouldn't it be good not to depend on some dignitaries and
other deciders to make things happen in an open way? Question is: how to
do it and where to start?
Best of luck in your efforts and keep us posted!

Dominique Proudhon
Dampierre
38470 Notre Dame de l'Osier
France
04 76 36 71 34
06 78 91 48 77

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