OST, OD, etc.

Fri Sep 27 02:00:51 PDT 2002

Dear all,

although I have not much time for list-discussions at the moment, I
jumped to the OS vs. OD-thread, intrigued, interested and finally
feeling my heart beginning to hurt, mainly because of the we/they
projections.

I felt: much of what was said about being "bad" with OD were things
"OD" people would say about other OrgConsultancy "schools"

Why OS vs OD , why not OS&OD?

I am an OD consultant, I think OST is a very strong instrument and
that the "OS organization" concept is fascinating. More and more of
my everyday professional practice becomes "open spaced" (at different
scale levels). I think, OST is a "genial trick" to deal in a simple
way with the complexity which opens once that self-organization gets
a chance to come out of its hidden spaces.

But still, I do not only OS interventions/facilitations. I love to do
different things. Sitting in a circle and lead or being led through a
mental journey to the future can be great, and so are many other
things. I believe in and fight for methodological diversity.

I felt so much to be said, that I gave it up before trying it.

So I was really happy with Chris Kloth's contribution, which
formulated many of the aspects I would have liked to say.

Thanks.

Ralph wrote: "I’m not a big defender of the OD field any more, not
since I concluded it gave up its mission of democratizing and
humanizing organizations and replaced it with near-blind willingness
to help execs manipulate people for the exclusive sake of the
financial bottom line".
Did IT? Fields do not do such things, Persons and Organizations do.
For me, and all the OD consultants, who are my friends, this is still
one of the fundamental points of OD and a basic difference to some
other Organization Consultancy approaches/styles/schools.

And it this tradition-line, going back to Kurt LEWIN (who already in
the 40ies knew more about problems and solutions of "organization
transformation towards democracy" than one would believe, seeing the
marketing strategies of ...STOP Bernd! I did not want to fall into
the 'we/they' reduction)) which makes me still proud to be an
OD-consultant.

And which means, that I did NOT accept "manipulative" interventions
and said NO to consultancies with hidden anti-democratic agendas.
And I do feel very well with this.

Since there are some guys of ODnet and IODA discussing on this list,
what do you think about this point? After having stressed the
differences OD/OS it could be a good idea to look out for
similarities, because I still feel these two as being house-to-house
neighbours.

Bernd

-----
weberb at gmx.at, on 27.09.2002 at 10:25:18 (GMT/UT + 02:00)
No attachments
-------------------------------------------------
Bernd Weber
-------------------------------------------------
e-mail: weberb at gmx.at
----
C.P. 1462, Beira, Sofala, MOZAMBIQUE
fone: +258-3-32 98 59, cellfone:+258-82-43 79 77
----
Gumpendorfer Straße 88b/18, AT-1060 Wien AUSTRIA
fone:  00431 596 86 57, cellfone: +43 0664 7667872
----
Wenn Du meine private elektronische Diskussionsgruppe abonnieren
möchtest,
sende einfach eine E-Mail an berndweber-subscribe at yahoogroups.de
----
Inscricao no grupo de discussao "Sistemas organizacionais":
Escrever um email para o endereco <sis-org-subscribe at eGroups.com>

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:36:22 -0400, Chris Kloth wrote:
>I have been lurking for a long time, but this thread hooked me today
>for a variety of reasons...some professional and some personal.
>
>I have a very different take on the OST/OD thread.  It has to do
>with a larger issue among people as individuals and communities,
>where community is not limited to geography, but does reflect
>elements of culture.  It has to do with the "I" and the "IT" that
>are essential elements of any strong community we CHOOSE to be a
>part of.
>
>Without attaching any judgment of the person or the question, this
>thread began with a question about why OST has not been on the OD
>radar screen.  As several people have pointed out, it has been on
>the OD screen for along time...yet there are people in OD who do not
>know about it still.
>
>One could also ask why it is not on the community development,
>economic development or the urban and rural development radar
>screens...and one who is involved in any of these activities would
>have to answer, "It is for some people and for others it is not."
>
>Over the 30 years I have been working with people in communities and
>organizations I have heard people, including me, ask why OD, UD, RD,
>CD, ED, etc don't/didn't have any of the following on their radar
>screen: Future Search, Appreciative Inquiry, Bohmian Dialogue, The
>Medicine Wheel, Social Ecology, Complexity Theory, Recursion,
>Synchronicity, Restorative Justice, and on and on and on.  In each
>case an "I" who had learned about or become excited about an "IT"
>that seemed valuable.  "IT" might be a tool, a theory base, a world
>view, a set of values or norms or practices.  The question was
>directed to an "us" (a group of "I" that are aware and appreciative
>of it) about a "them" who don't seem to "get IT."
>
>A more appropriate framing of the original question might be, "Why
>is it that OST does not seem to be on the radar screen for the
>people I talk with or the articles I read that seem to me to be
>identified with something some people call OD."  That places the
>question in the context of a person from within one community and
>its culture asking about people in another culture.
>This question allows for the possibility that "I" do not know enough
>of "them" to be sure, that no one should ever assume that any one
>member of "them" represents all of "them" and that "they" may not
>even think of themselves as an "us."  Often those of "us" who are
>pretty clear who "we" are categorize a variety of "not us" types
>into one group.
>
>What I have always liked about the listserves for OST, Future
>Search, OD, AI, PD, Kettering, and others is that there are lots of
>people who are working in communities and organizations who view the
>world and what works in the world differently than I do.  They are
>more or less experienced at their work, more or less grounded in the
>theory and history of their work, more or less informed about the
>way others do their work, more or less committed to the "one true
>way."  These differences enrich my life and my work.  I love to be
>disagreed with.
>
>What I am sometimes impatient with, and, reflecting on this rather
>pedantic sermon...tonight must be one of those times, is when any of
>"us" talks about "them" as if the "fact" that we get it means they
>don't.  At this point we trivialize our own purported values.
>
>All of this reminds me of what Shabbat supper will be like tomorrow
>night.
>Two very large extended families, very Jewish families are being
>joined by a marriage.  We will have orthodox, conservative and
>reform Jews in the room.
>There will be a whole lot of us and them and us and them will all be
>Jews, but some of us will think others of us are better Jews than
>others.
>
>It reminds me of talking about spirituality and religion and
>specific religious groups and specific believers and how each of
>these serves individuals and groups and communities more or less
>well.
>
>It also reminds me of the kind of thinking that, taken to a
>different scale and setting, contributes to the kind of tragedies
>that prevents racial and ethnic groups from resolving deeply held
>differences.
>
>I use OST in my work, but it is not the only way I work or view the
>world.
>I agree with many of the criticisms in this thread and this list
>about how some people practice what they call OD.  I also believe
>that, as a member of the ODNetwork, it is pretty hard to find
>evidence there is a cohesive "they" or "it" called OD...and that it
>is just as well that people can't seem to define OD very clearly.  I
>fear if it ever gets well defined it will become dangerous.
>
>Again, this is not about the person or the question, per se.  It is
>about how unconscious we are about how many ways we do this I-We-
>Then stuff.  It is about the way each of us (me, too), at times, can
>marginalize another person or group.
>
>At the risk of more hyperbole, the core question in human
>relationships may be this: how do we balance individuality and
>community?
>
>As Dennis Miller says, "Of course, that's just my opinion.  I could
>be wrong."
>
>Or, as Mick Jagger says, "It's only rock 'n' roll, but I love it!"
>
>Shalom,
>
>Chris Kloth Senior Partner ChangeWorks of the Heartland 250 South
>Virginialee Road Columbus, OH 43209-2052 telephone - 614-239-1336 x
>1 fax - 614-239-1337 e-mail - chris at got2change.com
>www.got2change.com
>
>* * ==========================================================
>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit:
>
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
Visit:

http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html