Giving and receiving

Mon Dec 2 02:20:06 PST 2002

Hi,

Peggy Holman stimulated an interesting discussion at OSonOSinOZ on this
topic (thank you Peggy)  and I will share with you my experience.

* I offer quite an amount of pro bono work, but only to non-profit
organisations.

* I offer a free mentoring program for university graduates embarking on
their careers and life journeys.  This service is totally free and mentees
access me by referral or word of mouth.

* The program is based on OS principles.

* There are only two givens:

o That mentees should be 'fair dinkum' (OZ talk for serious, true, authentic
etc) about their careers and life journeys, and
o That they should do something similar for someone else in their  lifetime.

The givens are important for me, and hopefully to this discussion, for a
number of reasons:
1. I receive nothing explicitly from the mentee, but inherently I gain
heaps.  If I was to charge a fee then I think it would 'corrupt' our
engagement and reduce it to a transaction.
2. I have no control over the honouring of the givens by the mentees - they
must make their own decisions.
3. The time honoured concept of unconditional giving is perpetuated by
others, and others, and others......

I have ample evidence that mentees do in fact honour the givens.  One mentee
has established a mentoring program in her workplace - a major Australian
public service organisation.  So, the simple act of giving at no cost to me
(in fact, emotional/spiritual profit) is profiting others.

Giving and receiving are two sides of the same coin, and that coin is
extremely  valuable to both parties.  Giving and receiving is not a linear
transaction but a circular transformation for all concerned.  I would even
suggest that giving and receiving is chaos in action.

So, in finishing I would say that the art of giving has to be
contextualised - if it is right for you, your circumstances, your family,
your business etc then do it.  But do it unconditionally because then there
is no way that you can possibly be disappointed if people dishonour the
givens - whatever happens....?  The danger is that if one is disappointed by
the non-reciprocated expectation of  receiving then one might just possibly
stop giving.  What a disaster that would be.

Kind regards,

Mick Walsh

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Christine
Whitney Sanchez
Sent: Monday, 2 December 2002 1:46 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Giving and receiving

Doug, I was in an almost identical situation this past year.  What felt the
worst and caused the most confusion for me and everyone else, was that in my
sincere desire to help the project get off the ground (here's where I became
confluent with the client), I also approached potential sponsors.  It was in
a meeting with one of them that I got a very helpful perspective.  She said,
"It simply won't work for the facilitator to be the driving force.  If the
conveners do not have the passion to get this thing off the ground, then it
cannot ultimately lead to anything sustainable."

I chose to go back to the conveners and share that insight.  A rich
discussion ensued, after which they decided to let go of the project.  But
that is not the end of the story.  Some of those who did have passion, have
begun dialoguing with another group that might be interested in teaming up
to co-convene an even more potent event.  We'll see.

I so appreciate your willingness to share your dilemma with us, Doug.  Thank
you for letting me learn with you.

Christine Whitney Sanchez
Triune Milagro
2717 E. Mountain Sky Avenue
Phoenix, AZ  85048-8990
480.759.0262  phone
480.759.0403
milagro27 at cox.net <mailto:milagro27 at cox.net>
www.milagro3.com <http://www.milagro3.com/>

Invoking the wisdom and capacity of the human spirit!

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Julie
Smith
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 7:09 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Giving and receiving

Hi Doug,

It's easier to work from one paradigm at a time.

If the fees are important to you, then I think you should be very clear
about that, ask whatever questions seem appropriate, and let the outcome
be whatever it is.

If the fees aren't important to you, then be clear about that, ask
whatever questions seem appropriate, and let the outcome be whatever it
is.

In talking about the choices I'm making, I didn't mean to infer that my
way makes sense for anyone else.  We're all on our own journey.

Did things start breaking down after you suggested bringing in
additional co-sponsors to help cover your fees?  Seems to me that there
are many ways in which that part of what happened might be contributing
to some of the concerns being expressed now.

Julie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
Douglas
> D. Germann, Sr.
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:02 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Giving and receiving
>
> Joelle, Julie, and everyone--
>
> You have raised some good questions for me to ponder, Joelle. Thank
you.
>
> Specifically, I have a series of 3 OSTs of 3 hours each which I am
putting
> together with a local senior independent living apartment complex. The
OST
> is about healthcare for seniors. (I have posted here about this group
> before.)
>
> When we first met, they were very enthusiastic about the project. We
have
> met 4 or 5 times for over 2 hours each time, planning this event.
>
> Originally, they asked me for a fee. I quoted X. They came back at the
> next
> meeting and said they had only 0.4 X. I said OK, we could work with
that,
> and then I showed them how they could raise the additional amount by
> seeking co-sponsors. They have approached a half dozen potential
sponsors,
> and I have helped them with by approaching other potential sponsors.
>
> Last time we met, they said they are incurring expenses and staff time
> they
> had not foreseen, and so they are not willing to pay any fee; Instead
I
> should be compensated by the contributions of the co-sponsors only.
They
> would of course "help" me contact those people.
>
> Now I agree with you and Julie and am willing to do the work for no
fee
> because it is important work. And I agree with the client that we will
> likely get sponsors at some level.
>
> Yet am I right in reading into their statements that they have
surfaced
> some fear?
>
> (I also do not want to end up being the prime mover behind these
OSTs.)
>
> How would you handle this situation?
>
> (My initial thought is not to argue with them, but to ask them
questions
> to
> draw out what are their fears. Obviously they will argue that their
budget
> is going away with staff time, mailing costs, etc. But I want to get
them
> to first tell me why this project is important to them, then go deeper
> into
> their fears than "budgets." But still the question is, how would you
> advise
> handling this?)
>
> I meet with them Tuesday morning....
>
>                               :-Doug.
>
> *
> *
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